--- Log opened Thu Mar 03 00:00:32 2011
00:01 < davetoo> jgartman: I am thinking about how I might use some of the existing hooks in Core for my own dependency-management experiments.  The problem is that since no non-Zenoss employee has any real role in the "Open Source" side, we have no way of knowing if something is going to be pulled out from under us.
00:04 < rhys> ah the beauty of dual licensed
00:05 < rhys> opps. dual licensing is bad. we call it open core now
00:05 < davetoo> I thought it was Commercial Open Source?
00:07 < rhys> nah. Zenoss has done about the best I've seen with making sure the open source side of things has a good support
00:08 < rhys> think its just hitting that point where all the nice features that the Zenoss company is paying developers to write will cost money. the work doesn't come for free here. and its not like alot of hobbiests are using zenoss. its all companies who make money off the software
00:10 < rhys> 2 problems though. I'm very curious how you make a module, an add-on thats somehow a standalone product out improving the open source dependency software.
00:11 < rhys> without making it a deritive work. and the other thing, the licensing cost is geared towards large/IT companies. Theres no way I could convince my company to pay for Zenoss when its role is seen as an "addon"
00:15 < rhys> The base Zenoss Enterprise Infrastructure Monitoring Package starts at $25,000 and allows you to manage up to 250 Managed Resources with Silver Level Service. Lol. Off by about a factor of 10.
00:21 < Praxi> oh man totally forgot about ntop
00:26 < jgartman> davetoo: what hooks are you talking about? We are very sensitive to changing published APIs (Zuul routers and what not).
00:27 < davetoo>  I haven't been able to figure out yet what Zuul does   I"m talking about, in particular, ManagedEntity.dependents and .dependencies
00:28 < davetoo> and ZenModel.LinkeManager
00:29 < davetoo> What does Zuul do?
00:30 < davetoo> appears to be part of some refactoring effort?
00:30 < jgartman> Basically just the layer between the browser and 'core' part of zenoss.
00:33 < davetoo> so, currently, all my CLI tools are based on ZenScriptBase
00:36 < davetoo> I guess I'd better look around at this
00:36 < jgartman> What are some of the things your tools are doing?
00:36 < jgartman> Or what do you want to do might be a better question.
00:36 < jgartman> or maybe even, what are you afraid to do?
00:38 < davetoo> Stuff that's hard to do from the web UI   Like mass changes of DeviceGroup memberships, managing Maintenance Windows for dozens or hundreds of devices, etc.
00:40 < jgartman> I would say those sorts of operations are safe since they're all zopey things. If you're connecting directly to the db and doing things, that is not so safe. The only case I'm talking about here is things manually mucking with events.
00:41  * davetoo is waiting eagerly for the day when
00:42 < davetoo> the daemons no longer make sql updates directly, but start using rabbitmq
00:42 < jgartman> Someone is peeking at trunk
00:43 < davetoo> often
00:43 < davetoo> Running it, sometimes
00:43 < jgartman> Oh? How has it been treating you?
00:44 < davetoo> I don't have the opportunity to run it in production.  just on my home system, so I really don't have more than three or four things I can monitor.
00:45 < jgartman> It's pretty spiffy, but I may be biased
00:49 < jgartman> This kinda comes back to Zuul; ideally Zuul is the main zenoss api, if you're watching trunk and digging through zuul, you'll see a new zep facade, that is intended to be the main point of contact with the events system.
05:10 < spacebat> I'm using the MySQLMonitor zenpack to monitor some mysql servers, two are legacy 4.1 and two are 5.x
05:11 < spacebat> the 5.x ones work fine, but the 4.1 servers only give nonzero values for Network Traffic
05:12 < spacebat> I've unticked the Version 5+ checkbox and pushed the changes to the collectors, then they stopped giving errors, but 3 out of 4 of the graphs are all zeroes
07:27 < Sam-I-Am> mmm 10 more gigs of internets
10:43 < Sonne> greetings!
10:43 < Sonne> if my understanding is correct, the pager scripts are executed whenever an alarm is raised that meet certain conditions
10:44 < Sonne> and zenoss' way to communicate with the script is just passing the event content in one line via stdin
10:44 < Sonne> is that correct?
11:03 < Sonne> anyone around?
15:06 < subbu> Hi All I Want to monitor the OS Process through WMI in Zenoss Core so for that i installed the zenpack named  ZenPacks.community.WMIDataSource-2.11.egg.zip
15:06 < subbu> and restarted the Zenoss . Apart from this do i need to install any other ?
15:06 < subbu> Can anyone please help me out on this
15:24 < rmatte> subbu: you need the WMI Performance Monitor pack (also by Egor)
15:24 < rmatte> then your devices need to go in the /CIM/WMI class
15:24 < rmatte> and be remodeled
15:25 < Sonne> i'm gonna try asking again...
15:25 < Sonne> if my understanding is correct, the pager scripts are executed whenever an alarm is raised that meet certain conditions - and zenoss' way to communicate with the script is just passing the event content in one line via stdin - is that correct?
15:25 < rmatte> Sonne: that is correct
15:25 < Sonne> ah awesome
15:25 < Sonne> so just one line aye?
15:25 < rmatte> well, it would be one line with \n characters for newlines I would think
15:25 < rmatte> I'm not 100% sure
15:26 < Sonne> hmm..
15:26 < Sonne> so if i was to use a bash script and perform a 'read', i'd get only the first line?
15:26 < rmatte> not necessarily
15:26 < Sonne> i guess the only way to know is trying it out
15:26 < rmatte> hold on, I know there are some guides floating around for this sort of thing
15:26 < Sonne> great.. i couldn't find any
15:27 < fragfutter> Sonne: or just write a script that reads the input and writes input and environment variables to a file, then you know what is coming in.
15:27 < rmatte> servlet/JiveServlet/download/5819-5-2544/sendqpage.sh.gz
15:27 < rmatte> that's a pager script designed to work with Zenoss
15:27 < rmatte> you can see how they do it in that
15:28 < rmatte> I got the link from this guide: docs/DOC-5819
15:29 < subbu> Rmatte: Thanks for the Update and its Working Fine
15:31 < rmatte> no prob
15:39 < Sam-I-Am> ahhh, the microwave circuit is down again
15:42  * Sam-I-Am contemplates trying to hack something with rrds so zenoss writes to the 'old one
15:43 < Sam-I-Am> er, 'old one' but with the new interface
15:52 < Sam-I-Am> be nice if there was an rrdtool join tool
16:11 < tehhobbit> got a question, how do I create graphs from indexed snmp data (dont know how many data sources I have)
16:15 < chemist> how do I return the output of a script (running on a device) to zenoss?
16:16 < chemist> the script returns 0 (ok) or 1(fail)
16:24 < suprsonic> has 3.1.0 been added to apt stack?
16:25 < mray> suprsonic: there is a 3.1.0 in the apt repo
16:25 < suprsonic> odd
16:26 < suprsonic> not showing up on my ubuntu box
16:26 < mray> http://dev.zenoss.org/deb/dists/main/stable/binary-i386/
16:26 < suprsonic> if I used the stack installer can I then move to apt for upgrades?
16:26 < suprsonic> maybe that is my issue
16:27 < mray> the .deb is a stack installer, but I don't believe you can go .bin->.deb
16:27 < suprsonic> deb http://dev.zenoss.org/deb main stable
16:27 < suprsonic> that's what I added to my sources.list
16:27 < rmatte> suprsonic: you'll be able to using that, provided you didn't install with the .bin first
16:28 < rmatte> I personally don't bother, I do the upgrades by hand
16:28 < rmatte> download bin, chmod +x, execute
16:28 < suprsonic> rmatte I did indeed install via bin first
16:28 < scofflaw> hello peoples
16:28 < rmatte> suprsonic: then it may or may not work
16:29 < rmatte> suprsonic: the .deb is just the stack installer wrapped up
16:29 < scofflaw> i'm running version 2.5.2 and am eventually interested in a 3.10 upgrade
16:29 < rmatte> suprsonic: so it probably will, but I can't guarantee it
16:29 < scofflaw> is that a direct upgrade?
16:29 < rmatte> scofflaw: yes, that can be done direct
16:29 < suprsonic> agreed rmatte
16:29 < scofflaw> rmatte nice, awesome
16:29 < suprsonic> http://pastebin.com/jWFhRUmj
16:29 < scofflaw> makes my life easier
16:29 < suprsonic> that's my update return
16:30 < scofflaw> i inherited a 1000+ node installation and have been banging my head on my desk a few times
16:30 < scofflaw>
16:30 < scofflaw> so i'm happy to know the upgrade path should be relatively easy (i hope)
16:30 < rmatte> scofflaw: make sure you install/run the Pre 3.0 upgrade ZenPack before installing 3.1
16:30 < rmatte> scofflaw: it'll warn you when you go to install if you haven't
16:30 < scofflaw> ah right on
16:31 < rmatte> scofflaw: it does a conversion of the zope database so that it's ready for 3.x
16:31 < scofflaw> i don't think i'll be doing the upgrade for a while now, but i'm happy to know the upgrade should be easy
16:31 < scofflaw> nice
16:31 < scofflaw> i have some questions about my zope db
16:31 < rmatte> yes?
16:31 < scofflaw> specifically conflict errors
16:31 < suprsonic> rmatte can I do a backup via zenoss and uninstall zenoss and install via apt get and restore the db?
16:31 < scofflaw> but i have a meeting to go to so i'll have to ask at a later time
16:31 < rmatte> scofflaw: as long as it says 0 unresolved, it's normal and can be ignored
16:31 < rmatte> (it'll say that at the end of the line in the log file)
16:31 < scofflaw> rmatte no it says some other crazy sh*t
16:31 < scofflaw> bbl
16:31 < scofflaw> thanks for the info
16:32 < scofflaw>
16:32 < rmatte> np
16:32 < rmatte> suprsonic: honestly, just try the straight install via the .deb overtop of what's already there
16:32 < rmatte> I'm 99% certain it'll work
16:32 < tehhobbit> rmatte: do you have any suggestion of a snmp collector suitable to use as "hello world" (seems like I need to learn how to write one if I'm gonna have a chance of graphing indexed snmp data )
16:33 < suprsonic> ah right
16:33 < suprsonic> k
16:33 < rmatte> suprsonic: copy your zenoss directory somewhere else on the server before you try to be safe
16:33 < suprsonic> thanks
16:33 < rmatte> that way you can just copy it back if need be
16:34 < suprsonic> thanks
16:34 < suprsonic> giving it a go
16:34 < rmatte> tehhobbit: I've actually never written one from scratch, just worked on existing types such as interface, filesystem, etc...
16:34 < rmatte> tehhobbit: maybe take a look at the old vmware snmp zenpack
16:34 < rmatte> tehhobbit: it's basically useless now, but the code should still be relevant
16:35 < tehhobbit> rmatte: got some env data + cpu usuage that I need to get graphed, is there another way (juniper switches and they show different depending on units etc)
16:37 < rmatte> wow that's lame, they haven't posted Egor's Cisco environment monitor pack yet
16:37 < rmatte> tehhobbit: hold on, I have something that'll help
16:37 < Sam-I-Am> rmatte: if i had the time i'd enterpriseify some of egor's stuff
16:37 < Sam-I-Am> or at least see what works and what doesnt
16:38 < Sam-I-Am> tehhobbit: you can use the interface plugin as an example of how to deal with indexed stuff
16:39 < Sam-I-Am> tehhobbit: i have a bunch of juniper stuff here and you might find just adding a handful of data sources manually for environmental stuff might be easier than trying to figure it all out via indexing
16:39 < rmatte> tehhobbit: check this out for reference: docs/DOC-10256
16:39 < rmatte> for the environmental monitoring part at least
16:40 < rmatte> I've tested that pack and it works nicely
16:40 < Sam-I-Am> i'm monitoring temp, cpu, various memory things, and a few other items on my cisco/juniper/brocade gear when available
16:40 < Sam-I-Am> each model seems to be slightly different
16:41 < tehhobbit> Sam-I-Am: we just ordered 30+ juniper ex4200 as edge switches
16:41 < tehhobbit> Sam-I-Am: something tells me it might accually be worth the time
16:41 < rmatte> I need to develop monitoring for the new Juniper SRX devices
16:41 < tehhobbit> rmatte: tnx for link
16:41 < rmatte> np
16:42 < Sam-I-Am> depends.  on my ex4200 i monitor only a few environmental items
16:42 < Sam-I-Am> i just made a device class for them
16:42 < tehhobbit> rmatte: I used the cacti template from the forum to figure out what was worth getting
16:42 < Sam-I-Am> rmatte: environmental or other?
16:42 < rmatte> I'm going to take that Cisco Env Mon pack and adapt it for HP switches for starters
16:42 < rmatte> then also Juniper, and some others
16:42 < tehhobbit> saw a srx version too
16:42 < Sam-I-Am> oh god hp switches
16:42 < rmatte> tehhobbit: yeh, I often dissect cacti templates
16:43 < tehhobbit> Sam-I-Am: yeah, what makes it bother some is that they might be in stacks of 1 - 3 so not monitored as induvidual devices
16:43 < tehhobbit> individual*
16:43 < rmatte> well, I found a nice way to edit rrd files and remove unwanted spikes
16:43 < rmatte> just dump to xml, edit, restore
16:43 < Sam-I-Am> you'll pretty much get 3 environmental items out of an srx
16:43 < rmatte> think I'll make a script for it
16:43 < Sam-I-Am> at least the smaller ones
16:44 < Sam-I-Am> tehhobbit: i dont have anything stacked... not sure how those will turn out.
16:44 < tehhobbit> Sam-I-Am: according to juniper.net you can get an index from SNMPv2-SMI::enterprises.2636.3.1.13.1.5.2.1.1.0 with names
16:45 < Sam-I-Am> i should zenpack some of these templates for you guys
16:45 < tehhobbit> Sam-I-Am: would love it if you  did that
16:45 < rmatte> tehhobbit: I hate when they don't translate the enterprises portion
16:46 < rmatte> -On people!
16:47 < Sam-I-Am> its probably more here....1.3.6.1.4.1.2636.3.1.13.1.5
16:48 < Sam-I-Am> but yeah, you could index on that and make something spiffy.  some of the items have no data, and in my case of limited i/o resources, i graph as little as possible.
16:49 < rmatte> nice, the ethernetCsmacd template's datasources don't have RRD min set to 0
16:49 < rmatte> so they allow for negative values
16:49 < rmatte> actually sorry, the 64bit template rather
16:49 < rmatte> not the regular one
16:49 < rmatte> guess I have to go through all my server now and add that
16:49 < rmatte> servers*
16:49 < Sam-I-Am> i have all mine min=0 and derive
16:50 < rmatte> all my ethernetCsmacd_64 templates don't have min=0 for the actual datasources
16:50 < Sam-I-Am> ah
16:50 < rmatte> which is why I'm getting negative values from time to time and it's throwing everything off
16:51 < tehhobbit> rmatte: http://www.oidview.com/mibs/ is a dear friend
16:51 < rmatte> yeh I use that site a fair bit
16:51 < Sam-I-Am> oidview is <3
16:51 < rmatte> hehe
16:52 < scofflaw> did you pay for it?
16:52 < Sam-I-Am> not always the newest mibs, but a good hint as to what you're looking for
16:52 < rmatte> hmmm, I've been seeing some negative values in filesystem report output lately too, I'll have to check the datasources on those templates too
16:52 < scofflaw> oh, just the site
16:52 < scofflaw> i was thinking of the mib browser and what not
16:52 < Sam-I-Am> rmatte: you're just negative :/
16:52 < scofflaw> i see the same thing
16:53 < scofflaw> negative values for writes on my filesystems
16:53 < rmatte> Sam-I-Am: hardy har har
16:53 < scofflaw> not all, but many
16:53 < scofflaw> i posted on the forums and people said they don't know why or how to fix but they know about the prob
16:53 < scofflaw>
16:53  * Sam-I-Am makes a competing cisco mibs zenpack
16:54 < scofflaw> nice
16:54 < scofflaw> good luck with that
16:54 < Sam-I-Am> lol
16:54  * Sam-I-Am jabs rmatte
16:54 < scofflaw> i have to write the simplest zenpack and have had a hard time getting off the ground
16:54 < scofflaw> :/
16:54 < Sam-I-Am> rmatte: so you name your zenpacks with your company name?
16:54 < rmatte> Sam-I-Am: good luck with that lol
16:54 < rmatte> and yes, I do
16:54 < rmatte> since I create them while being paid by the company
16:54 < Sam-I-Am> hmm, not sure what the policy is here
16:54 < scofflaw> what company?
16:54 < rmatte> lol
16:54 < rmatte> Nova Networks
16:55 < rmatte> Sam-I-Am: Matt Ray said it was perfectly fine to do so
16:55 < scofflaw> ah nice
16:55 < scofflaw> cool
16:55 < tehhobbit> way to go juniper, I search thier site to dl a mib file, no matches, googeled it and found it on thier own site
16:55 < Sam-I-Am> tehhobbit: should be a giant tarball/zip of all the mibs
16:55 < Sam-I-Am> well, for *most* things.
16:55 < rmatte> Sam-I-Am: the only one that I didn't name with the company name is the Formula Data Source ZenPack, and that's because I made that one on my own time
16:55 < Sam-I-Am> the stuff they bought from netscreen and their vpn appliances are different
16:56 < rmatte> devchat this morning?
16:57 < rmatte> mray: hello hello
16:57 < mray> howdy
16:57 <@nyeates> heya, yes there will be a dev chat, low key one
16:57 <@nyeates> ...it wasnt announced this time
16:57 < Sam-I-Am> guess i'll try to roll these templates into a zenpack
16:57 < Sam-I-Am> first time for everything
16:58 < rmatte> nyeates: cool, I'm around until 12:00, when does it start?
16:58 < jgartman> Now.
16:58 < rmatte> woot
16:59 < Sam-I-Am> yay
17:00 -!- nyeates changed the topic of #zenoss to: "Dev Chat Ongoing - 3.1.0 GA is out!"
17:01 < Sam-I-Am> rmatte: so if i add /devices/network/juniper to a zenpack... that includes all the device templates for the subclasses?
17:01 < Sam-I-Am> or do i get to add them all manually
17:04 < rmatte> Sam-I-Am: it will include any template that reside in that class structure
17:04 < rmatte> resides*
17:04 < Sam-I-Am> interesting
17:04 < rmatte> if you click on the ZenPack in the ZenPacks section you'll see what it includes in terms of zope objects
17:05 <@nyeates> I am going to flip the table here - I actually have a general unix Question that someone might know. the command head -n2 shows the first two lines of std out if piped to. What if I want to only show the 2 line of stdout? (not the first)
17:05 <@nyeates> using sed maybe?
17:06 < Sam-I-Am> head -2 | tail -1
17:06 < fragfutter> nyeates: head and tail
17:06 <@nyeates> nice nice
17:06 < rmatte> yeh, that's the way to go hehe
17:06 <@nyeates> thank you
17:07 < Sam-I-Am> rmatte: yeh, right now 'files in zenpack' doesnt show anything particularly interesting
17:07 < fragfutter> you could also do it with awk, but most people don't know nothing about it so it's not worth learning for this case
17:08 < Sam-I-Am> ah, maybe this is it....
17:08 < Sam-I-Am>    492496  03-03-11 10:05   ZenPacks/kanren/juniper/templates/objects/objects.xml
17:08 < Sam-I-Am> inside the egg
17:09 < rmatte> nyeates: an even cleaner way is...
17:09 < rmatte> rmatte@noc:~$ echo -e "Line 1\nLine 2\nLine 3" | sed -n '2p'
17:09 < rmatte> Line 2
17:10 < Sam-I-Am> i tend to stick with the most basic commands and/or language to get whatever i need done done
17:10 < Sam-I-Am> a reason why i avoid perl...
17:10 < rmatte> hehe
17:10 < rmatte> I use bash a lot
17:10 < Sam-I-Am> guess i need a test box to try out my zenpacks
17:10 < rmatte> I can do basically anything with it
17:11 < Sam-I-Am> will make rolling things out on a new system much easier
17:11 <@nyeates> thx rmatte
17:11 < Sam-I-Am> and i can let you guys mess with my stuff
17:11 < rmatte> nyeates: np
17:11 < Sam-I-Am> only things i dont have in this juniper zenpack are models i dont own...which i can't test
17:12 < Sam-I-Am> but it should contain interface templates for all known interfaces and ignore all the billions of junk intefaces junipers have that don't need graphed
17:13 < Sam-I-Am> on my ex4200, 'vne' now and then changes state... for no obvious reason
17:17 < Sam-I-Am> quiet in here :/
17:17 < theacolyte> Couple of quick questions - someone remind me if you can set tolerances for monitoring devices via ICMP - like it has to not ping for 5 minutes before alerting
17:18 < theacolyte> Also, can it automatically enter maintenance mode on a scheduled basis? Like I don't want to be alerted between 4-8AM - but at 8AM if there's still a device not pinging, alert me?
17:19 < Sam-I-Am> theacolyte: alerting rules cover how long to wait before alerting about something, but the event will still get created
17:19 < jgartman> You can setup windows that are valid for your alert rules.
17:19 < Sam-I-Am> you can also create recurring maintenance windows
17:20 < Sam-I-Am> or just do it in alerting rules like jgartman suggested
17:20 < theacolyte> got it... I need to lab it, but I figured I'd ask
17:20 < theacolyte> for icmp replys (simple up/down monitoring), can you create a new template with thresholds?
17:21 < theacolyte> Essentially I'm monitoring about 800 DSL connections to our stores and what I don't want is for our support people to get an alert when it doesn't reply back to one ping - if it's down for 5 minutes, sure, but one ping will flood them
17:22 < Sam-I-Am> theacolyte: you could write a transform for ping which increments severity of the event the longer its down
17:22 <@nyeates> there is some options for ping flapping in the product i believe
17:22 < Sam-I-Am> rmatte had me do that for something :/
17:22 < theacolyte> that would be handy actually
17:22 <@nyeates> i do not recall right now where...
17:23 < Sam-I-Am> i have a firewall whose management interface ignores pings sometimes for several minutes
17:23 < theacolyte> looks like I found something o nthe forums
17:23 < Sam-I-Am> so until it loses 3 minutes worth, the event is not important... then it becomes critical
17:23 < theacolyte> Sam-I-Am: yeah that would actually be ideal
17:23 <@nyeates> i think there are settings in the templates
17:23 < theacolyte> unfortunately, even when I was actively using zenoss and was decent at it, I still got a headache when doing transforms hahahha
17:24 < jgartman> theacolyte: I think what you want is to just set the delay on your alerting rules, no need for messy transforms: docs/DOC-3111
17:25 < Sam-I-Am> http://pastebin.com/eJdMqtbR
17:25 < jgartman> once a ping up comes back in it will clear the ping downs and you'll be set.
17:25 < Sam-I-Am> thats the transform... then in the alerting rule, the count has to be > 3
17:25 <@nyeates> that is a good solution jgartman
17:26 < theacolyte> hmmm
17:26 < Sam-I-Am> zenoss... tons of ways to do the same thing
17:26 < theacolyte> If I'm understanding delays, the first tier I would have no notificaiton, then set up a delay for the 2nd (where everone would sit)
17:27 < Sam-I-Am> my thing was i needed to keep the dropped pings off the dashboard until it was a real issue since we have people watching that at the service desk
17:27 < Sam-I-Am> and they will bark if they see anything on the dashboard
17:27 < Sam-I-Am> if you're merely going by email alerts, then a delay at the alert rule level would be fine
17:27 <@nyeates> theacolyte: yet another way: go to collector settings, and see "Ping Timeout" "Ping tries"
17:27 < Sam-I-Am> nyeates: which affects all things on that collector
17:27 < theacolyte> Sam-I-Am: that is *exactly* what I'm trying to do
17:27 <@nyeates> true
17:28 < jgartman> Sam-I-Am: Yeah, that is a different problem. Transforms would be great there I think.
17:28 < theacolyte> If a site doesn't respond for 30 seconds, we don't care
17:28 < theacolyte> 5 minutes... yes
17:28 < Sam-I-Am> jgartman: i have a LOT of work put into making only real problems appear on the dashboard... whats worse is we have a few who watch the event console and that drives me nuts
17:28 < theacolyte> I'll have to check out that transform then... it seems like it makes a lot of sense
17:29 < fragfutter> where do i find the event transforms in zenoss3?
17:29 < jgartman> Then you'll need to use transforms to muck with things, sorry - the delay just manages alerting noise.
17:29 < theacolyte> hehe, that's always the struggle with these systems - you get a lot of chatter - how do you make sense of it and only get what's truly important. Otherwise you desnsitize everyone and people ignore it
17:29 < theacolyte> jgartman: no need to apologize, thanks for throwing that in there
17:30 <@nyeates> so we are dreaming up some interesting / funny t-shirt ideas for community members that update a zenpack to 3.*
17:30 <@nyeates> any ideas?
17:30 < Sam-I-Am> theacolyte: how you solve it depends on a) if all those dsl devices are on one collector, you can adjust the global ping interval/drops b) whether or not you want intermittent <5 min problems to appear on the dashboard c) whether or not people only hear about things via email/pager alerts
17:30 <@nyeates> http://tinypic.com/r/9855ae/7 this is current shirt idea
17:30 < fragfutter> reminds me that i still didn't release mine
17:30 < Sam-I-Am> hmmm
17:31 < theacolyte> Sam-I-Am: One collector, I can adjust it since it will be *just* for this purpose, and intermittant 5 minute issues are fine - I just need to be able to tweak thresholds until we are only being alerted when needed (an arbitrary, not yet set amount of minutes)
17:31 < fragfutter> "now graphs in 3"
17:31 < fragfutter> (to take a shot on the 3d craze)
17:31 < theacolyte> nyeates: I would make it My zenpack is 3.x, what about yours
17:31 < Sam-I-Am> theacolyte: i'd check out the ping interval/loss values... see where that takes you.  if it works, no need to mess with transforms.
17:32 <@nyeates> theacolyte: good idea
17:32 < Sam-I-Am> i'd have a picture of the typical python traceback you get from trying to install a v2 zenpack on 3 with a big circle and line through it
17:33 <@nyeates> hahaha, yeah i almost did a | grep "Traceback" on the install command
17:33 < theacolyte> If I'm reading the transform properly, that will do what I need
17:33 <@nyeates> i wasnt sure if all installs traceback tho
17:33 < theacolyte> I'm goign to head into the office and lab it
17:33 < Sam-I-Am> theacolyte: yep, keeps it off the dash.  the alerting rule part is a separate thing you may or may not need.
17:33 < Sam-I-Am> nyeates: not always... but often
17:33 < theacolyte> thanks gents
17:35 < rmatte> nyeates: lol, uses part of my ZenPack name, I like it
17:35 < Sam-I-Am> lol
17:36 < fragfutter> is there any _nice_ way to debug a transform in zenoss? like first writing it in a file and being able to run a test event against it from the CLI?
17:36 < rmatte> fragfutter: nope, you write it and as long as the code doesn't turn red you then wait for an event to come in to test it with
17:36 < rmatte> and tweak it from there if need be
17:36 < fragfutter> *bah*
17:37 < rmatte> some things can be tested in dmd, but a whole transform can't be reliably tested
17:37 < jgartman> Create a ticket, or something. This is a known annoyance and would be nice to have.
17:37 < fragfutter> i want to have a test event (pickled) run it against my snippet and see how to event would look afterwards.
17:38 < rmatte> jgartman: create a ticket from what?
17:38 < ranger03> Zenoss newbie. Confused by the UI. What Zenoss URL/PDFs should I read first?
17:38 < jgartman> rmatte: Create a ticket for an enhancement asking for a way to test transforms.
17:38 < Sam-I-Am> well, the official guides might be good.
17:39 < Sam-I-Am> available at community.zenoss.com
17:39 < rmatte> ranger03: click on the question mark in the top right corner of the UI
17:39 < rmatte> it'll take you right to the guides
17:41 <@nyeates> ranger03: docs.zenoss.com
17:41 <@nyeates> getting started guide
17:41 <@nyeates> and admin guide
17:41 <@nyeates> install guide first if you havent installed yet
17:41 < ranger03> I have Ubuntu 10.10, basic os nothing on it..Did a stack install of the binary..It hangs..So I control-C...reboot server..Zenoss seems to be there+working..Not off to a good start.
17:42 < rmatte> ranger03: it's not hanging, it's building the zope database
17:42 < rmatte> you need to be patient
17:43 < rmatte> run the stack installer again and don't kill it until it actually finishes
17:43 < rmatte> otherwise your Zenoss won't run properly
17:43 < jgartman> ranger03: Was there anything other than it taking a long time that made you think it hung?
17:44 < rmatte> jgartman: it's because it sits at 90% for a while, but people think it's 100% and assume it's hung
17:44 < rmatte> but it's not
17:45 < rmatte> anyways, I need to go prep for a meeting, bbl
17:45 < Sam-I-Am> yay meetings
17:48 < rmatte> bleh someone has the boardroom until noon so I have to wait
17:48 < rmatte> wanted to get a laptop/projector setup ahead of time
17:48 < rmatte> figures
17:49 < Sam-I-Am> lol
17:49 <@nyeates> we had a similar issue during upgrades....we added verbage in the upgrade process to say "please be patient, system is doing X"....maybe we need this for stack install?
17:49 < whitemice> anyone have any ideas for <thread/15599> nothing under Advanced displays an action menu so I can't create alerting rules, add zenpacks, etc.. It apears other places.  This is a new install of 3.1.0 stack on CentOS5.
17:50 <@nyeates> tried a different browser?
17:50 <@nyeates> on diff computer?
17:50 <@nyeates> sometimes the browsers cache messes things up
17:50 <@nyeates> UI thing
17:54 < whitemice> yes, tried different computers, browsers, clearing cache, etc... and logging in as different users
17:54 < jgartman> whitemice: Are you expecting an action menu on the bottom left?
17:55 < subbu105> @nyeates:is it possible to monitor the OS Process through WMI in Enterprise
17:59 <@nyeates> subbu105: We do windows service monitoring over WMI, and I am unsure about process monitoring
18:00 <@nyeates> you can still do process monitoring via SNMP over windows
18:00 <@nyeates> I would have to look into it further if we do WMI-based process mon in Enterprise. I can find out if its something important to you.
18:02 < Sam-I-Am> i'm trying to make a graph report containing several interfaces from a few devices
18:02 < Sam-I-Am> i can set the 'graph name' but it doesnt display by default in the report
18:02 < Sam-I-Am> is there a way i can reference that in the graph summary?
18:02 < subbu105> @Nyeates:yeah its important for us. We cannot install SNMP in those devices .
18:04 < jgartman> Sam-I-Am: I don't know, trying to find out.
18:04 <@nyeates> subbu105: ok, we will take the convo off of here and I can find an answer for you.
18:04 < Sam-I-Am> jgartman: cool, thanks
18:05 < subbu105> @nyeates: Great .Thanks a lot
18:07 -!- nyeates changed the topic of #zenoss to: "3.1.0 is current stable version"
18:07 <@nyeates> Thyanks for dev chat all....see you all around
18:07 <@nyeates> subbu105: check your private chat
18:08 < Sam-I-Am> seeya nick
18:09 < subbu105> sure
18:33 < Sam-I-Am> meh @ multigraph reports
18:56 < Sam-I-Am> stupid fleanode
19:01  * Sam-I-Am tries to figure out custom graph definitions in multigraph reports
19:02 <@nyeates> yeah they can be a pain
19:02 <@nyeates> the docs are your friend
19:02 <@nyeates> and any examples you can find
19:03 < Sam-I-Am> trying to figure out if it actually supports ${here/fullrrdpath}
19:03 < Sam-I-Am> seems to only grab one of the devices though
19:17 < theacolyte> freenode may benefit from having zenoss as a monitor
19:17 < theacolyte> speaking of which, time to lab what we were talking about earlier
19:21 < Sam-I-Am> heh
19:22 < Sam-I-Am> i'm doinking with multigraph reports
19:41 < Sam-I-Am> anyone know what in a custom graph definition translates to "rrdPath" in the graph commands?
19:41 < Sam-I-Am> as oppose to ${here/fullRRDPath} which seems to become __render_with_namespace__
19:58 < mistich> hello all
20:00 < mistich> anyone know how to tell zendisc to add a network to zenoss if it doesn't exists in networks?
20:01 < mistich> anyone here?
20:03 < Sam-I-Am> we're here... sorta
20:03 < Sam-I-Am> i'm working on a problem
20:04 < mistich> thats ok just checking if anyone around
20:08 < Sam-I-Am> mistich: doesnt the discovery mechanism add the networks it finds on each device?
20:10 < mistich> yes say if you search 10.8.0.0/16 it will add 10.8.1.0/24
20:11 < mistich> but if you search 10.8.1.0/24 it will not add it you have to go into the gui add 10.8.1.0/24 then it will discover devices under 10.8.1.0/24
20:12 < mistich> I want zendisc if it searches 10.8.1.0/24 to add 10.8.1.0/24 if not the gui
20:14 < theacolyte> remember back when SF changed their downloads and wget wouldn't work?
20:14 < Sam-I-Am> hmm
20:15 < Sam-I-Am> mistich: what does it add if you search 10.8.1.0/24 ?
20:15 < mistich> 2011-03-03 17:20:02,387 WARNING zen.ZenDisc: No networks found for 10.8.177.0/24
20:15 < mistich> 2011-03-03 17:20:02,388 INFO zen.ZenDisc: Result: Discovered 0 devices
20:16 < mistich> but there are devices under that /24
20:17 < mistich> was going to write a script to just add all the /24 but wanted to check if anyone knew of a zendisc option I  might have missed
20:20 < Sam-I-Am> wonder if since you're already searching the /24 it figures you already know about it
20:21 < Sam-I-Am> so if you had some /28 within the /24 it would find those
20:21 < Sam-I-Am> i dont know how to fix it
20:21 < mistich> yeah weird
20:21 < Sam-I-Am> i havent done discovery via network yet
20:22 < mistich> ok  thanks
20:31 < eidolon> hi folks - we're running 2.5.2 - i'd like tos et up a monitor that checks for a value in a MySQL table and flags if it sees it (we log syslog messages into mysql, I want to trigger an alert when a CRIT syslog message is received.)  is there a guide on how best to do this?
20:48 < bigegor> eidolon: check ths Zenpack: docs/DOC-3388
20:49 < bigegor> and this: docs/DOC-5913
20:50 < eidolon> that first one we have already - that's the normal mysql monitor that collects statistics.
20:51 < eidolon> second one might be it
20:53 < scofflaw> bigegor, i always wondered, how big are you
20:53 < bigegor> 190cm
20:54 < scofflaw> damnit
20:54 < scofflaw> i have to convert that
20:54 < scofflaw> that's reasonably big
20:54 < scofflaw>
21:01 < theacolyte> ah, I missed zenoss
21:02 < theacolyte> have to get used to the new interface though
21:02 < rmatte> it's not that bad, just don't overlook the elusive menus in the bottom left like everyone seems to do.
21:02 < theacolyte> yep, that's actually what prompted that hahaha
21:02 < theacolyte> "How do I remodel this device?!?!"
21:03 < rmatte> lol
21:03 < rmatte> they need a little crab dancing in the bottom left corner going "HEY! I'M A MENU! OVER HERE!"
21:03 < theacolyte> It is a pretty weird location for a menu
21:03 < theacolyte> hahahh that would work
21:03 < rmatte> meh, I find it works fine
21:03 < eidolon> bah.  shorties.  i'm 200cm
21:03 < theacolyte> well, once you know it's there, sure - I'm just saying from a new user POV most people wouldn't expect an app to put a menu there
21:04 < rmatte> true
21:04 < rmatte> then again the menus in 2.x were just as elusive until you realized they were there and knew what to look for
21:05  * eidolon should look at 3.1 at some point.  i'm still in 2.5.2 land
21:08 < nonsenso> woo.  my first 3.x install.
21:09 < nonsenso> looks lovely once i figured out where everything was. 
21:11  * Sam-I-Am fills out zenoss survey
21:12 < Sam-I-Am> rmatte: you familiar with tales expressions available in custom graph definitions?
21:12 < rmatte> Sam-I-Am: a bit
21:13 < eidolon> to install a ZenPacks.community egg file, do i just copy it to /opt/zenoss/ZenPacks/ ?
21:13 < eidolon> then i can bind it?
21:14 < rmatte> eidolon: no, not at all
21:14 < eidolon> FAIL
21:14 < eidolon> ok
21:14 < rmatte> are you ssh'd in as the zenoss user?
21:15 < nonsenso> eidolon: you want to use the zenpack command or you can install it from the admin menu
21:15 < eidolon> okie dokey
21:15 < rmatte> nonsenso: I'm going to have him install it from commandline, it's easier to see errors if they show up that way
21:15 < nonsenso> fair enough. 
21:15 < rmatte> eidolon: ssh in, become the zenoss user
21:16 < rmatte> make sure that the file is a .egg, not a .egg.zip, if it's a .egg.zip, unzip it
21:16 < rmatte> then do zenpack --install <filename>
21:16 < rmatte> do NOT do that if the file is in /opt/zenoss/ZenPacks
21:16 < rmatte> if it is, move it out of there
21:16 < eidolon> yep, i hecked to see if it was there (it isn't).  i unzipped it
21:16 < rmatte> k
21:17 < rmatte> zenpack --install <filename>
21:17 < rmatte> and you will probably need to restart Zenoss after you install it
21:17 < rmatte> then you'll be good
21:17 < eidolon> 2011-03-03 15:17:40,563 INFO zen.ZPLoader: Loading /opt/zenoss/ZenPacks/ZenPacks.community.SQLDataSource-1.6.egg/ZenPacks/community/SQLDataSource/objects/objects.xml
21:18 < Sam-I-Am> rmatte: trying to figure out why {$here/fullRRDPath} in a custom graph def for a multigraph report only displays one of the items, while letting zenoss do the work with standard graph points pulls the same variable (e.g., ifHCInOctets) for each device in the report
21:18 < rmatte> eidolon: that's normal
21:18 < eidolon> yep
21:18 < eidolon> was jsut reporting
21:19 < rmatte> Sam-I-Am: it probably just doesn't handle the output from the function the same way
21:19 < rmatte> Sam-I-Am: it's most likely expecting single line output
21:19 < rmatte> eidolon: restart zenoss after installing the pack
21:20 < Sam-I-Am> the graph commands look different ... not sure what "rrdPath/blah" translates to in a custom graph definition. $here/fullRRDPath seems to become __render_with_namespace__
21:20 < scofflaw> eidolon, sup big guy
21:20 < scofflaw> i'm 67in
21:20 < scofflaw> up to your shoulders or something
21:20 < scofflaw>
21:20 < eidolon>
21:21 < bigegor> eidolon: so you can use nickname 'biggerthanegor'
21:21 < eidolon> Yarrrr.
21:23 < scofflaw> :/
21:23 < scofflaw> ok
21:23 < scofflaw> lying on your back
21:23 < scofflaw> how tall are you
21:23 < scofflaw> (without an erection  pervies!)
21:24  * Sam-I-Am watches the conversation take a turn...
21:24 < scofflaw> hah sorry
21:24 < scofflaw> :X
21:26 < scofflaw> simply wondering if my girth would be challenged
21:27 < JohnnyNoc> bigegor, just want to say thanks for help in the forums
21:27 < bigegor> np
21:27 < JohnnyNoc> and if it means anything, i can be smallerthanegor
21:29 < bigegor> size does not matter
21:45 < JohnnyNoc> in case of zenoss yes it does!
21:45 < JohnnyNoc> with 1000+ devices
21:45 < JohnnyNoc>
21:47 < bigegor> my network is smaller
21:49 < davetoo> what's the topic?
21:49 < JohnnyNoc> ÔøΩÔøΩÔøΩ Topic (#zenoss): "3.1.0 is current stable version"
21:50 < davetoo> uh
21:50 < davetoo> "in the case of zenoss yes it does" what?
21:52 < JohnnyNoc> oh
21:52 < JohnnyNoc> "size does not matter"
21:56 < davetoo> ah, yeah, the platform can become really, really busy.
22:01 < rmatte> are any devs around?
22:01 < Sam-I-Am> ah, my coworker is going to kill me
22:01 < rmatte> ?
22:02 < Sam-I-Am> just sent him a revised document in sed notation
22:02 < Sam-I-Am> "just run this on your document"
22:02 < rmatte> lol
22:02 < Sam-I-Am> well, that got the nerd out of my system for the day
22:02 < davetoo> hah
22:02 < davetoo> I did a very nerdly bash/sed script to edit zenoss daemon conf files recently.
22:02 < davetoo> Line noise.
22:02 < Sam-I-Am> lol
22:03 < Sam-I-Am> regex can get that way
22:03 < Sam-I-Am> i ran an app several years ago which basically took a constant stream of data and getting what you wanted was all regex
22:03 < Sam-I-Am> sometimes several lines long
22:03 < rmatte> that's because you are heavy perl users
22:04 < Sam-I-Am> is that like a heavy crack user?
22:04 < rmatte> worse
22:04 < Sam-I-Am> i havent used perl for much in a long time
22:04 < Sam-I-Am> my skillz are down
22:04 < rmatte> I'm finding myself forced to, and I'm not enjoying it lol
22:05 < Sam-I-Am> last thing i remember was writing an snmp-based tool for network management like finding the port someone is plugged into given hostname, mac, ip, etc.
22:06 < davetoo> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/347676/
22:06 < Sam-I-Am> snmp+perl=disaster
22:06 < davetoo> That thing, without comments, is pure line noise
22:06 < Sam-I-Am> lol
22:07 < davetoo> x; H; g; p; x; s/.*//; x; b;
22:07 < Sam-I-Am> not much better than 1.4.567.3.7.6.2.3
22:08 < davetoo> .1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0
22:09 < Sam-I-Am> funny thing is i know that one
22:09 < Sam-I-Am> or sad...
22:09 < davetoo> hah
22:09 < Sam-I-Am> my boss and i had an email thread using oids
22:10 < Sam-I-Am> eventually i didnt have the mib for one and threw the same error snmpwalk does
22:10 < davetoo> Sounds like a cool boss
22:10 < Sam-I-Am> at times.
22:10 < Sam-I-Am> and the coworker blew up
22:10 < davetoo> hah
22:12 < davetoo> I hate writing resumes
22:15 < Sam-I-Am> replying with full changes just requires running sed on this...
22:15 < Sam-I-Am> davetoo: me too
22:15 < davetoo> Send him a diff, then
22:15 < Sam-I-Am> davetoo: i've had quite a few jobs go by rather quickly due to reasons out of my control (stupid economy) and have been tempted to explain why they were short-lived
22:16 < Sam-I-Am> dont want to get written off without explanation
22:16 < davetoo> My current challenge is to filter down the myriad things I've done into something short and coherent
22:16 < Sam-I-Am> davetoo: i like not seeing my internal organs
22:16 < davetoo> yeah
22:16 < davetoo> I may have the opposite problem
22:17 < davetoo> I was at the same place for 11 years
22:17 < Sam-I-Am> ha @ follow-up "oh, i figured it out"
22:17 < davetoo> That sed program I posted took me quite a while to figure out.
22:18 < Sam-I-Am> i cant fathom being at one place that long in this magical economy
22:18 < Sam-I-Am> lots of churn at place i've been... management in particular
22:19 < davetoo> I was with a well-known hardware manufacturer.  We shipped things on trucks.
22:19 < rmatte> well, we've stabilized here so I'm hoping I'll be here for a while
22:19 < rmatte> been here 3 years so far
22:20 < JohnnyNoc> i'm 1.5 months on the job
22:20 < JohnnyNoc> and my primary responsibility is Zenoss - so you'll probably be seeing me a lot
22:20 < JohnnyNoc>
22:20 < rmatte> sysadmin?
22:20 < davetoo> JohnnyNoc: what kind of place?
22:20 < JohnnyNoc> my title isn't sysadmin, but a lot of times it feels like a jr sysadmin type role
22:21 < JohnnyNoc> the company is financial services industry
22:21 < JohnnyNoc> but we have a few different monitoring platforms the boss wants to bring under zenoss
22:21 < JohnnyNoc> and the guy previous to me didn't seem to have things under control
22:21 < JohnnyNoc> or documented
22:21 < JohnnyNoc>
22:21 < rmatte> lol
22:21 < JohnnyNoc> we're hiring sysadmins
22:22 < JohnnyNoc> and netadmins
22:22 < JohnnyNoc> and dbas
22:22 < rmatte> I've been managing Zenoss for close to 2 and a half years now. lots of fun
22:22 < JohnnyNoc> in Chicago, IL
22:22 < davetoo> oh
22:22 < rmatte> but I also manage lots of other tools
22:22 < davetoo> I don't wanna move there
22:22 < JohnnyNoc> rmatte, awesome, i hope you don't mind the questions i'm bound to ask
22:22 < davetoo> I have relatives in rural, southern IL (around Springfield) but that's a different world than Chicago
22:22 < JohnnyNoc> davetoo it certainly has its pros/cons
22:22 < JohnnyNoc> yea
22:22 < rmatte> JohnnyNoc: nah, I always help out people in here
22:23 < Sam-I-Am> JohnnyNoc: what?  previous people not being in control nor documenting well?  have we worked in the same place?
22:23 < rmatte> JohnnyNoc: just make sure you read the Zenoss Admin guide top to bottom since it answers a lot of stuff you're likely to ask
22:23 < JohnnyNoc> Sam-I-Am ha ha ha
22:23 < JohnnyNoc> rmatte *nod* i will rtfm
22:23 < JohnnyNoc> more
22:23 < JohnnyNoc> :X
22:23 < rmatte> I actually have an RTFM sticker on my home computer lol
22:24 < rmatte> it's my mantra
22:24 < JohnnyNoc> but let's be honest here, from what i've gathered thus far, the documenation available for Zenoss is rather poor
22:24 < Sam-I-Am> depends on what you're looking at
22:24 < JohnnyNoc> and trying to find answers in the forums and wht not seems like a fruitless endeavor
22:25 < JohnnyNoc> but i'll chalk a lot of that up to my current lack of understanding
22:25 < rmatte> JohnnyNoc: the Zenoss Admin guide is actually quite good, way better than I've seen for many other open source projects
22:25 < rmatte> and then you just fill in the gaps by asking in here
22:25 < rmatte> this channel is very active
22:25 < JohnnyNoc> *nod*
22:25 < JohnnyNoc> yes, i begged my boss to let me through the firewall at work
22:25 < rmatte> hehe
22:25 < Sam-I-Am> irc is teh awesome
22:25 < rmatte> indeed
22:25 < JohnnyNoc> and eventually he gave me a tip on how to subvert the firewall
22:25 < JohnnyNoc> oh yea
22:25 < JohnnyNoc> i love IRC
22:25 < JohnnyNoc> started well over 10+ years ago
22:25 < Sam-I-Am> theres folks here most of the time... some of us can help with one thing or another
22:25 < JohnnyNoc> primarily on efnet however
22:25 < JohnnyNoc> *nod*
22:25 < willwh> argh
22:26 < willwh> don't admit to that JohnnyNoc.
22:26 < JohnnyNoc> i certainly intend to be as helpful as possible
22:26 < JohnnyNoc> willwh why not?
22:26 < rmatte> I was on tons of different IRC networks back in the day
22:26 < willwh> haven of the terrible
22:26 < JohnnyNoc> haha
22:26 < JohnnyNoc> yes, i'm familiar
22:26 < rmatte> quakenet, dalnet, efnet, relicnet, etc...
22:26 < willwh> IRC is great though, but...
22:26 < JohnnyNoc> efnet was a dif breed
22:26 < rmatte> then I started an IRC network with some people, and that's where I still am
22:26 < JohnnyNoc> wild west
22:26 < davetoo> This is a great channel
22:26 < willwh> I saw an article on slashdot today
22:27 < Sam-I-Am> the undocumented deal here is ask all you want, but also stick around to answer things for other people.
22:27 < JohnnyNoc> Sam-I-Am absolutely
22:27 < JohnnyNoc> i plan on being a productive member of the community
22:27 < JohnnyNoc>
22:27 < Sam-I-Am> theres also a lot of "revolving door" issues... come in, ask, and leave in 60 seconds if nothing happens.
22:27 < willwh> that's just the young un's
22:27 < JohnnyNoc> haha
22:27 < rmatte> Sam-I-Am: well, a lot of people just stop by quickly, ask something, get their answer, and leave.... but that is definitely prefered that people actually stick around and help out
22:27 < JohnnyNoc> i will be having lots of 'idling' issues
22:27 < JohnnyNoc>
22:27 < willwh> they don't understand IRC.
22:27 < davetoo> Fortunately there are a few freenode servers on nonstandard ports
22:28 < willwh> Idle Relay Chat ;]
22:28 < Sam-I-Am> and theres a few on v6
22:28 < JohnnyNoc> haha
22:28 < davetoo> willwh: young'uns and Microsoft people
22:28 < JohnnyNoc> willwh, when iw as on IRC 10+ years ago it was I Repeat Class
22:28 < JohnnyNoc>
22:28 < davetoo> actually,
22:28 < davetoo> not true that young folks don't.
22:28 < willwh> I run an eggdrop bot on Stratics IRC
22:28 < willwh> for a game I play
22:28 < willwh> it follows RSS feeds to announce updates to channel etc
22:28 < rmatte> I was 13 when I started on IRC
22:28 < davetoo> many of the biggies in the new "social" spaces use IRC internally
22:28 < JohnnyNoc> hehehe
22:28 < JohnnyNoc> ok ok o
22:28 < rmatte> I'm 25 now, coming up on 26 in May
22:28 < JohnnyNoc> but who was calling BBS' ?
22:28 < Sam-I-Am> rmatte: so... its been 4 years? lol
22:29 < JohnnyNoc> let's see how old we really are
22:29 < willwh> JohnnyNoc: <<<
22:29 < JohnnyNoc>
22:29 < rmatte> JohnnyNoc: believe it or not, I used BBS'
22:29 < willwh> I'm only 28 though :]
22:29 < JohnnyNoc> ah nice
22:29 < JohnnyNoc> i'm 33
22:29 < Sam-I-Am> i've been on irc since 92-93
22:29 < JohnnyNoc> little older
22:29 < Sam-I-Am> and now i'm really old (3)
22:29 < Sam-I-Am> (30)
22:29 < Sam-I-Am> at least i feel that way
22:29 < rmatte> We had a list of them in this Monitor Magazine that was offered free at a bunch of computer stores around here
22:29 < rmatte> so I'd grab that and dial in to whichever looked interesting
22:29 < JohnnyNoc> nice
22:29 < JohnnyNoc> that's pretty cool
22:29 < rmatte> using hyperterminal and my 14.4 modem
22:29 < JohnnyNoc> at my age, i was simply interested in games
22:29 < JohnnyNoc> downloading games, for free
22:30 < JohnnyNoc> so i didn't have to lift them from the stores
22:30 < JohnnyNoc> :/
22:30 < JohnnyNoc> and then I learned about hpav BBS'
22:30 < JohnnyNoc> hacking/phreaking/anarchy/virus
22:30 < rmatte> JohnnyNoc: at one point I ran a warez channel on dalnet with my friend, we had over 1000 people on average
22:30 < rmatte>
22:30 < Sam-I-Am> lol
22:30 < JohnnyNoc> nice
22:30 < Sam-I-Am> warez
22:30 < rmatte> the things you do when you're young
22:30 < rmatte> lol
22:30 < JohnnyNoc> haha
22:30 < JohnnyNoc> yea man
22:30 < JohnnyNoc> i was in some warez groups
22:30 < Sam-I-Am> remember when it was called "NPD" ?
22:30 < JohnnyNoc> pentagram primarily
22:31 < rmatte> Sam-I-Am: I remember when isohunt wasn't a torrent site, it just showed what the groups were releasing, then you'd have to track it down on irc
22:31 < Sam-I-Am> heh
22:31 < JohnnyNoc> didn't it get in trouble too?
22:31 < Sam-I-Am> npd was a bbs thing
22:31 < JohnnyNoc> as isohunt, before it became a torrent?
22:31 < rmatte> yeh I think it did
22:31 < JohnnyNoc> there was some iso site that got busted
22:31 < JohnnyNoc> i forget
22:31 < Sam-I-Am> "oh look, this only takes 8 hours to download in 15 tiny chunks"
22:31 < rmatte> though I don't know how since they didn't actually host any of it
22:32 < rmatte> or even link to it for that matter
22:32 < JohnnyNoc> i was actually reminiscing about file_id.diz's today
22:32 < Sam-I-Am> ha
22:32 < JohnnyNoc> rmatte yea, tell me about it, stupid draconian laws
22:32  * Sam-I-Am cranks the wayback machine up
22:32 < rmatte> hehe
22:33 < Sam-I-Am> all these new communications platforms and we still use irc
22:33 < rmatte> irc still beats all that other crap
22:33 < JohnnyNoc> it's the best
22:33 < JohnnyNoc> now if i could only slap someone with a trout!
22:33 < Sam-I-Am> oh my...
22:33 < rmatte> hehe
22:33 < rhys> did that yesterday. its very refreshing
22:34 < JohnnyNoc> heh
22:34 < Sam-I-Am> grr @ multigraph reports
22:34 < JohnnyNoc> dont laugh at me
22:34 < JohnnyNoc> but i'm still using BitchX
22:34 < JohnnyNoc>
22:34 < rmatte> JohnnyNoc: so am I
22:35 < Sam-I-Am> i moved to irssi at some point
22:35 < rmatte> osiris-1c/bitchx-1.1-final
22:35 < rmatte> with osiris script
22:35 < Sam-I-Am> cant remember why
22:35 < JohnnyNoc> i would have installed irssi if it were available in my yum repository
22:35 < rmatte> I've gotta run, ttyl
22:35 < JohnnyNoc> but it was nowhere to be found
22:35 < JohnnyNoc> see ya rmatte
22:35 < Sam-I-Am> rmatte: later
22:35 < davetoo> I've heard several of the "biggies" like Flickr and Facebook talk about internal IRC being so important, they integrate it into their unified logging stream
22:35 < davetoo> Splunk or the open-source equivalents
22:35 < JohnnyNoc> i worked for google
22:35 < JohnnyNoc> and we used it
22:35 < Sam-I-Am> i've worked at places with internal irc
22:35 < JohnnyNoc> but it wasn't like, essential
22:36 < JohnnyNoc> but was good for creating personal relationships with employees, and communication of course
22:36 < Sam-I-Am> theres a logger in here which makes things searchable on the zenoss web site
22:36 < Sam-I-Am> or maybe just by google...
22:36 < davetoo> They use it for operational stuff.
22:36 < Sam-I-Am> JohnnyNoc: i didnt know people were allowed to leave google
22:36 < JohnnyNoc>
22:36 < JohnnyNoc> they will try to pay you to stay
22:37 < JohnnyNoc> if you mention "Face...."
22:37 < JohnnyNoc> 20% raise
22:37 < JohnnyNoc> "Twit...." 30%
22:37 < JohnnyNoc> or you're a female engineer?
22:37 < JohnnyNoc> 50%
22:37 < JohnnyNoc> but i only worked in hardware operations, so don't confuse me with the stereotypical super nerdy googler
22:38 < theacolyte> Hard to tell - does http monitor work with 3.1.0?
22:39 < davetoo> JohnnyNoc: you worked for Google in Chicago?
22:39 < JohnnyNoc> theacolyte i don't know for sure, but i thought it was part of Zenoss Core so my assumption would be yes
22:39 < JohnnyNoc> davetoo yes
22:39 < JohnnyNoc> before they purchased their superdatacenters in the middle of nowhere
22:39 < JohnnyNoc> and then proceeded to move the infrastructure out
22:39 < JohnnyNoc>
22:40 < JohnnyNoc> the 10s of thousands of servers at least, of course they left a lot of fiber and network gear lying around
22:40 < Sam-I-Am> middle of nowhere being oklahoma and the like?
22:40 < JohnnyNoc> yes
22:40 < JohnnyNoc> oklahoma
22:40 < JohnnyNoc> iowa
22:40 < JohnnyNoc> north carolina
22:40 < Sam-I-Am> ick, yeah
22:40 < JohnnyNoc> south carolina
22:41 < JohnnyNoc> best options would have been Atlanta
22:41 < davetoo> Place I was at built a pretty large one in NC
22:41 < JohnnyNoc> or Oregon
22:41 < JohnnyNoc> well, and of course mountain view
22:41 < davetoo> MV electricity and land is expensive
22:41 < Sam-I-Am> if i have to move anywhere its going to be back to colorado
22:41 < JohnnyNoc> well, MV is just corporate offices
22:41  * davetoo is in the silly valley
22:41 < JohnnyNoc> old SGI offices
22:41 < theacolyte> ugh sorry if I"m being an idiot, if it's part of zenoss core, does that mean it's already there?
22:41 < theacolyte> davetoo: I'm in the bay area as well
22:42 < JohnnyNoc> theacolyte it's my assumption but i'm new to zenoss and only use 2.5.2
22:42 < davetoo> JohnnyNoc: it's .. not just old SGI offices, it's the whole *neighborhood*
22:42 < JohnnyNoc> so i dont really know
22:42 < JohnnyNoc> davetoo hahaha
22:42 < JohnnyNoc> yea
22:42 < JohnnyNoc> keeps growing
22:42 < Sam-I-Am> JohnnyNoc: if you're doing a new deployment you might consider 3.1
22:42  * Sam-I-Am remembers when sgi mattered
22:42 < JohnnyNoc> Sam-I-Am well, the current deployment is 2.5.2 but i do have an upgrade in my future
22:42 < JohnnyNoc> after i get some new hw allocated
22:42 < JohnnyNoc>
22:42 < davetoo> theacolyte: where?
22:42 < Sam-I-Am> i rolled out 2.5.2 since it was stable at the time of project inception
22:43 < theacolyte> davetoo: I work over in Emeryville
22:43 < davetoo> The 3.x UI is... maddening
22:43 < Sam-I-Am> it has some issues
22:43 < Sam-I-Am> 3.1 seems a bit batter
22:43 < JohnnyNoc> i'm having a lot of issues
22:43 < JohnnyNoc> but again, ithink it's just because of my lack kof knowledge and documentation
22:43 < JohnnyNoc> and time spent reading docs
22:43 < JohnnyNoc>
22:43 < Sam-I-Am> i could live in california just for the decent weather... but the crowd+expense is a bit annoying
22:43 < JohnnyNoc> but just learning to love the log files, and debug, i've made some progress
22:44 < theacolyte> Let me try zenpack --install
22:44 < theacolyte> I've always had problems iwth the GUI
22:44 < davetoo> JohnnyNoc: just remember to let people know you're using 2.5.2 when you ask questions
22:44 < Sam-I-Am> JohnnyNoc: what i found with zenoss is something just clicked one day and it made sense... particularly inheritance of templates and properties
22:44 < JohnnyNoc> Sam-I-Am *nod*
22:44 < JohnnyNoc> that's clicking for me too, especially as i think more and more about reorganizing our groups/systmes
22:44 < JohnnyNoc> because previous guy did a bad job of separating 'business units' and 'it services'
22:45 < JohnnyNoc> so i get the task of reorganizing that when i dont even know what groups we have yet
22:45 < JohnnyNoc> heh
22:45 < theacolyte> So it looks like httpmonitor does not work on 3.1.0
22:45 < Sam-I-Am> yeah, and also make sure you dont categorize types of devices under "devices" ... e.g, whether they are "core" or "edge" network things
22:45 < davetoo> I don't know whether I'
22:46 < davetoo> ^W^W^W   I'm between gigs right now.  Who knows whether I'll be able to keep using Zenoss or not.
22:46 < JohnnyNoc> why not?
22:46 < theacolyte> Not a directory: '/usr/local/zenoss/zenoss/Products/ZenPacks.zenoss.HttpMonitor-2.0.3-py2.6.egg/skins'
22:46 < theacolyte> that good ol error
22:46 < JohnnyNoc> we have a NEtwork device class
22:46 < JohnnyNoc> and below that, Router, Switch, Wireless, etc
22:46 < theacolyte> which basically means an old zenpack
22:46 < davetoo> JohnnyNoc: the groupings under Devices should be strictly along what SNMP capabilities they have
22:47 < davetoo> theacolyte: yeah but usually it still works, no?
22:47 < Sam-I-Am> JohnnyNoc: the device tree is for things like device brands and models.  so /device/network/cisco/7200 is good... but not /device/network/core/7200... because then if you have a non-core 7200 you get to make another class
22:47 < theacolyte> davetoo: nah
22:47 < JohnnyNoc> davetoo very good point
22:47 < JohnnyNoc> Sam-I-Am makes sense
22:47 < JohnnyNoc> so is it also advised against making like, dev, staging, and prod device groups?
22:47 < davetoo> JohnnyNoc: I learned that one the hard way
22:47 < davetoo> DeviceGroup != Device Class
22:48 < davetoo> You can make all the groups and Systems  you want; they are essentially just tags
22:48 < JohnnyNoc> davetoo ah right right
22:48 < davetoo> used for filtering
22:48 < Sam-I-Am> JohnnyNoc: along those lines i have a separate bunch of groups based on support levels
22:48 < JohnnyNoc> not just filtering, but like, for alerting rules as well correct?
22:48 < Sam-I-Am> so a network backbone device is classified under group backbone but also 24x7 support
22:48 < Sam-I-Am> and the alerting rules read off the support levels
22:48 < davetoo> they are good for alert filtering/routing, setting maintenance windows, etc.
22:49 < JohnnyNoc> man, i feel like my groups/systems are such a clusterfuck
22:49 < JohnnyNoc> sigh
22:49 < Sam-I-Am> if event X AND device is in 24x7 support, go page someone.
22:49 < JohnnyNoc> 24x7 support being a 'system'
22:49 < JohnnyNoc> ?
22:49 < davetoo> probably Group
22:49 < Sam-I-Am> its a group here, but it could be a system.
22:49 < JohnnyNoc> yea
22:49 < JohnnyNoc> hrm
22:49 < davetoo> They're treated identically
22:49 < Sam-I-Am> groups and systems are more or less the same and will confuse you sometimes.
22:49 < JohnnyNoc> ok
22:50 < JohnnyNoc> yea, i keep trying to think of it as different business groups have similar needs
22:50 < JohnnyNoc> such as 'web servers'
22:50 < JohnnyNoc> or 'db servers'
22:50 < JohnnyNoc> which would be systems
22:50 < JohnnyNoc> at least that's what i'm thinking
22:50 < Sam-I-Am> the way i use systems here is when a group of somewhat unrelated devices are used by one application.  like... application X requires machines A B and C, network devices E and F, and some other stuff
22:50 < davetoo> I suspect that in the Enterprise stuff, maybe they are starting to use Systems for dependencies? Or maybe not.
22:50 < wobblyonions> hi all
22:50 < JohnnyNoc> and below say, web servers, we'd have apache/IIS..  and below that, prod staging dev
22:50 < JohnnyNoc> does that sound crazy?
22:50 < Sam-I-Am> davetoo: not that i've seen here, but maybe in the future
22:51 < JohnnyNoc> Sam-I-Am hrm ok that makes sense
22:51 < Sam-I-Am> JohnnyNoc: that'd probably work too
22:51 < Sam-I-Am> theres an unlimited way to configure stuff in zenoss
22:51 < JohnnyNoc> hah
22:51 < JohnnyNoc> enough rope to hang yourself!
22:51 < Sam-I-Am> its pretty organization-dependent... but the more planning you do, the better it'll turn out and be scalable later.
22:52 < theacolyte> rmatte: ping
22:52 < Sam-I-Am> theacolyte: he wandered off for the day
22:52 < theacolyte> bah
22:52 < theacolyte> this http monitor thing is killing me
22:52 < Sam-I-Am> locations can be useful too
22:53 < Sam-I-Am> i have them configured as my backbone nodes, so if i need to work on a node, i can set the location in maintenance and it handles all connected devices.
22:54 < JohnnyNoc> Sam-I-Am is there any way you can dump your systems/groups so i can view?
22:54 < JohnnyNoc> or, i dunno, screenshot or something?
22:54 < Sam-I-Am> hmm...
22:54 < JohnnyNoc> not a big deal but i'm definitely interested in seeing how other people are doing it
22:54 < JohnnyNoc> i think i "get it" for the most part however
22:54 < JohnnyNoc>
22:55 < Sam-I-Am> bet screenshots would be about it
22:55 < JohnnyNoc> well, if it's not too much trouble i'd love to see, otherwise like i said, not a big deal
22:55 < JohnnyNoc>
22:56 < Sam-I-Am> only issue really is divulging internal stuff :/
22:57 < Sam-I-Am> i can basically tell you how they're done though
22:57 < JohnnyNoc> Sam-I-Am totally understood
22:57 < JohnnyNoc> i'm a couple days before i'm seriously thinking about that stuff
22:58 < JohnnyNoc> for now, i want to get rid of this damn zenperfsnmp heartbeat failure that's been driving me nuts!
22:58 < Sam-I-Am> heh
22:58 < Sam-I-Am> i've had those come and go... mostly zenrender
22:58 < JohnnyNoc> fuck man
22:59 < JohnnyNoc> it's driving me crazy
22:59 < JohnnyNoc> and i tried a few things the other day and started getting a bunch of zenping heartbeat failures
22:59 < JohnnyNoc> fortunately i figured uot what i did to cause those, so now i'm going to concentrate on this
23:00 < Sam-I-Am> zenoss can become a big time sink on seemingly minor issues
23:01 < JohnnyNoc> haha i learned that very quickly
23:01 < JohnnyNoc> but wow
23:01 < JohnnyNoc> let me tell you
23:01 < JohnnyNoc> kill -SIGUSR1 PID
23:01 < JohnnyNoc> so helpful when you're running multiple collectors on one box
23:08 < rmatte2> does anyone in here have any recommendations of good SIEM solutions?
23:08 < davetoo> ?
23:08 < rmatte2> security monitoring
23:09 < rmatte2> ossim isn't cutting it for us
23:09 < Sam-I-Am> i've only used stuff like logwatch
23:09 < Sam-I-Am> or somilar oss things
23:10 < rmatte2> yeh, looking for something more robust
23:12 < davetoo> JohnnyNoc: you're running multiple collectors?
23:12 < davetoo> on the same box, what does that get you ?
23:22 < Praxi> anyone familiar with fping? how do I get it to apply to a interface instead of a device?  I have it applying to one of my routers, but really it needs to apply to one of the interfaces on that router
23:23 < davetoo> Are you trying to use it in a Zenoss template, or what?
23:24 < Praxi> ya, pretty new at this, but I believe I applied it to the template for devices in "Network"
23:24 < Praxi> the graph shows up when I look at the router, but not the interfaces
23:24 < Praxi> did I just apply the template to the wrong thing?
23:25 < davetoo> I don't think there is an out-of-the-box solution for exactly what you want to do.
23:25 < Praxi> its not populating data, but I assume that is because I have pointed it at something that couldn't
23:25 < davetoo> Zenoss will use snmp to query the interface state
23:25 < Praxi> ahh, am I confused about how I should be using it then?
23:26 < Praxi> let me go read the comments again, maybe  missed something
23:26 < davetoo> which zenoss version?
23:26 < Praxi> 3.08
23:26 < Praxi> sorry 3.03
23:27 < davetoo> so if you go to the device view, Components->Interfaces,
23:27 < davetoo> you should see a table of interfaces at the top, and by default a set of graphs at the bottom, right?
23:28 < Praxi> ya interfaces top, default throughput graphs at bottom
23:28 < davetoo> Every snmp poll cycle (5 minutes by default), Zenoss polls the state of the interface via snmp
23:28 < davetoo> if you look at the details for one of the interfaces, you see Aadministrative Status" and "Operational Status"
23:29 < davetoo> that's what the router OS thinks the interface is doing
23:29 < davetoo> is that not good enough?
23:30 < Praxi> hmm I just see "status" (up or down), don't see Admin or Operational Status
23:30 < theacolyte> rmatte: hey
23:30 < theacolyte> rmatte: arclite is talked about quite a bit
23:30 < Praxi> mainly I just wanted the fping, to show me latencies and things like that, for our voip system
23:31 < theacolyte> we use OSSIM here though
23:31 < theacolyte> rmatte: my turn though - how can I do HTTP monitoring in 3.1.0?
23:31  * Sam-I-Am opens another fun case with zenoss
23:31 < Sam-I-Am> theacolyte: he pinged out
23:43 < theacolyte> sadface
--- Log closed Fri Mar 04 00:00:33 2011