[26-May-2011 11:03:04] <nyeates> Everyone! Meeting is adjourning. If we can get some silence for the next few minutes, that would be great
[26-May-2011 11:04:10] <nyeates> We want to properly explain our commitment to the community and to do that, we have Zenoss CEO, Bill Karpovich here today.
[26-May-2011 11:04:44] <nyeates> We will hear from him for a little and open to a few comments. Bill has limited time, so will have to leave us in a bit.
[26-May-2011 11:04:54] <bedwards_zenoss> Hi Nick.
[26-May-2011 11:04:54] <nyeates> Take it away Bill.
[26-May-2011 11:05:14] <bkarpovich> hey, everybody
[26-May-2011 11:05:31] <bkarpovich> hope everyone is doing well.
[26-May-2011 11:05:31] <Jane_Curry> Greetings - good to have you along!
[26-May-2011 11:05:39] <jmp242> hi
[26-May-2011 11:05:54] <Hackman238> Glad to have you here today. Look forward to soem infos.
[26-May-2011 11:06:03] <bkarpovich> my pleasure... sorry that we have been a bit invisible...
[26-May-2011 11:07:01] <bkarpovich> as Nick suggested.... the key thing that i would like to make clear is that Core and community continue to be essential to Zenoss overall...
[26-May-2011 11:07:08] <Jane_Curry> focused elsewhere, perhaps
[26-May-2011 11:07:23] <bkarpovich> we have had several changes over the last 6 months
[26-May-2011 11:07:46] <bkarpovich> with our community team, product evolution, repo evolution, etc...
[26-May-2011 11:08:48] <bkarpovich> our communications during this have not been as clear as they certainly could have been and we have been working through internally the details of whats next
[26-May-2011 11:08:59] pmcguire is now known as ptmcg
[26-May-2011 11:09:25] <bkarpovich> in terms of how we are supporting the community from a team perspective (in addition the good work that Nick is doing)
[26-May-2011 11:09:49] <bkarpovich> and how the repos evolve and the future releases of Core
[26-May-2011 11:10:28] <bkarpovich> our plan is to spell out the details on each of these in the coming weeks
[26-May-2011 11:10:50] <bkarpovich> and more opps to collaborate on this (IRC, etc...)
[26-May-2011 11:11:48] <bkarpovich> the one thing is not a question is that Core and the community are essential and we are going get them both moving with the energy that we have had in the past and more
[26-May-2011 11:12:51] <bkarpovich> Nick has pulled together some of the key questions that are on people's minds...
[26-May-2011 11:13:40] <bkarpovich> it would be great in this session and over the next couple of days to get those shared and appreciated on our end
[26-May-2011 11:14:28] <bkarpovich> we can certainly address any specific questions/concerns directly... or put them in the queue for the coming weeks
[26-May-2011 11:14:43] <nyeates> Here is what we have so far: 1) Where is core/community going? What is the strategy? 2) What is happening with relstorage and future features? 3) Documentation improvement for developers 4) How will Core be released? 5) Pricing 6) Communication needs to happen now
[26-May-2011 11:14:51] Hugh is now known as Hugh_
[26-May-2011 11:15:24] bedwards_zenoss_ is now known as bedwards_zenoss
[26-May-2011 11:15:53] <nyeates> Any questions / topics anyone can add to these?
[26-May-2011 11:15:57] <Hackman238> nyeates: Can you qualify how core features are differentiated from enterprise features?
[26-May-2011 11:16:01] <Hackman238> nyeates: Can you qualify Zenoss's prioritization in moving core releases in sync with enterprise releases?
[26-May-2011 11:16:13] <Jane_Curry> Suggest also some specifics as to what Core DON'T get as opposed to Enterprise (and some of this may be under the covers...)
[26-May-2011 11:16:56] <jmp242> I'd also like to see some idea if Zenoss inc is OK with, wants to promote, or would prefer this didn't happen wrt
[26-May-2011 11:17:28] <jmp242> Core / community bug bounties, or pledges / whatever to pay third party developers to extend Core etc
[26-May-2011 11:17:51] <bkarpovich> jane -- please help me understand the distinction you're looking for (thanks, btw, for all that you do in the community. i am continually in awe! :-)
[26-May-2011 11:18:13] <jmp242> so that people who can contribute percentages of the funding for a feature can join together to get it done by the talented Community developers etc
[26-May-2011 11:18:29] <Jane_Curry> Some things are specific to Enterprise and are documented as such
[26-May-2011 11:19:21] <rmatte> Question:  Zenoss Core is labeled as such because it is supposed to represent the core functionality of the product.  A decision was made some time ago to move from standard zopedb to relstorage to improve performance.  Recently, a decision was made to remove the relstorage code from Zenoss Core.  My question is, how can you continue to consider Zenoss Core as a core version when you are omitting core features from it?  The database is the foundation of the produ
[26-May-2011 11:19:22] <rmatte> By using standard zopedb on one and relstorage on the other you are essentially creating a fork between Enterprise and Core rather than having Core be the foundation of Enterprise.  This is going to affect future development as well as testing.
[26-May-2011 11:19:27] <Jane_Curry> but I suspect there is some "enabling stuff" that has gone on for some enterprise features that is there under the covers in Core
[26-May-2011 11:20:02] <Hackman238> nyeates: What is Zenoss's strategy for capitalizing on small and medium businesses instead of turning them away with per device licensing? I have tens of dozens of customers who would buy Zenoss if the pricing model fit the business size.
[26-May-2011 11:20:39] <Jane_Curry> rmatte - thanks - this is the sort of thing I suspected and was trying to get at - didn't realise relstorage had become Enterprise only
[26-May-2011 11:21:21] <rmatte> Jane_Curry: yeh, they removed the relstorage code from the Core subversion a month or two ago
[26-May-2011 11:21:54] <Jane_Curry> As you say, this effectively means there are 2 different products
[26-May-2011 11:22:04] <Hackman238> nyeates: What is Zenoss's strategy for handling Zenpack comptibility and best practice? I might suggest random Zenpack audits for bad code. The best packs can then be pointed to as ideal examples of best practice.
[26-May-2011 11:22:16] <bkarpovich> all good questions and suggestions.... please keep them coming...
[26-May-2011 11:22:32] <rmatte> Jane_Curry: exactly
[26-May-2011 11:22:52] <Jane_Curry> I thought a lot of the value in the Core / Enterprise model is that you can "upgrade" to Enterprise but you simply get extra stuff
[26-May-2011 11:23:03] <jmp242> Jane_Curry: and of course that split does have implications for users and I think affects their calculus in what product to use
[26-May-2011 11:23:04] <bkarpovich> re relstore.... here what our thinking was....
[26-May-2011 11:23:27] <Jane_Curry> .. plus the support contract which was what most people REALLY wanted - as Hackman238 referred to
[26-May-2011 11:23:27] <Hackman238> The idea was to limit the scalability of Core.
[26-May-2011 11:23:42] <rmatte> Hackman238: ZenPack audits is a phenominal idea, there are some baaaad baaaad ZenPacks out there
[26-May-2011 11:23:48] <bkarpovich> part of the value of "Enterprise" is easier large-scale deployments
[26-May-2011 11:24:48] <rmatte> I don't see relstorage as increasing the scalability of Zenoss, you still have the RRD bottleneck to deal with, which you need to turn to collectors for, which Enterprise does much better than Core.
[26-May-2011 11:24:55] <Jane_Curry> rmatte - and some might be mine.  We need good documentation of good / bad practise
[26-May-2011 11:25:05] <jmp242> rmatte: I think that zenpack audits should be enabled for the community to step up on also, assuming we get the docs or best practices so we can do it appropriately
[26-May-2011 11:25:07] <bkarpovich> while the DB is certainly base plumbing, mysql here was really being used a persistence layer under the same DB interface
[26-May-2011 11:25:29] <rmatte> Jane_Curry: I don't think any of the ones that I saw from you were really that bad
[26-May-2011 11:25:40] <Jane_Curry> hmmmmmmmm
[26-May-2011 11:26:04] <rmatte> jmp242: agreed
[26-May-2011 11:26:27] <Hackman238> bkarpovich: The simple fact is Zenoss will not capture a large lost market of small and medium business by limiting Core scalability.
[26-May-2011 11:26:33] <rmatte> jmp242: they would also allow us to obsolete ZenPacks, because lord knows there are a lot of them in the list that need obsoleting.
[26-May-2011 11:26:35] <bkarpovich> so the DB layer was not being changed perse... just a faster persistence layer and Core was not being crippled in any way (kind of like supporting Oracle in an Enterprise edition)
[26-May-2011 11:27:53] <Jane_Curry> but if you have a load of different base infrastructure code then you have different products, different support groups,
[26-May-2011 11:28:26] <bkarpovich> a mistake we made in the process was that product management had it slated for an enterprise feature but we began development in the core trunk.  for better or worse, our decision was to pull it back. we are continuing to look this as part of the plan forward.
[26-May-2011 11:28:35] <jmp242> I guess the confusion here is that much of the community thinks that zenoss hasn't really been selling enterprise as a product so much as a turnkey solution. I.e., most of the value hasn't been in the Zenpacks - and in fact selling the software more commercially like some competitiors can be done much more cheaply (we think anyway per the above competitiors), and that limiting core scalibility doesn't get you purchases
[26-May-2011 11:28:42] <Jane_Curry> What about folk who have both Core and Enterprise (perhaps through company mergers....) - they need two different sets of knowledge
[26-May-2011 11:29:00] <nyeates> Jane_Curry: my understanding is that relstorage still stores everything in object stores as before - just puts it in  a different storage mechanism
[26-May-2011 11:29:05] <rmatte> bkarpovich: Not to mention that the community then has to once again hack together something and try to support it for themselves.  I read a one page document explaining how to integrate relstorage in to core, and for such a relatively simple process, I'm amazed that it's not being officially supported in Core when it is in Enterprise.  You're opening the door for all sorts of conflicts and oversights when testing.
[26-May-2011 11:29:42] <Hackman238> bkarpovich: By making accurate documentation, community bennifits and enforcing Zenpack best practice Zenoss Inc could reduce the costs of Enterprise for small and medium businesses and at the same time promote Core development whilst reducing the number of support calls for cryptic, time consuming Zenoss repairs due to broken Zenpacks or the simple lack of documentation.
[26-May-2011 11:30:18] <Jane_Curry> hear , hear!
[26-May-2011 11:30:21] <Hackman238> It'll help everyone- you, me, the community and new customers.
[26-May-2011 11:30:48] <Hackman238> I have three businesses in three states across the country. I assure you this will help.
[26-May-2011 11:30:59] <bkarpovich> rmatte: all good points.  to be clear, the Core/Enterprise feature decisions are challenging and involve tough trade offs.
[26-May-2011 11:31:11] <rmatte> Hackman238: I have found the support documentation to be slightly lacking... I always feel like I'm doing more reverse engineering than development when creating more complex ZenPacks
[26-May-2011 11:31:24] <rmatte> sorry, I meant development documentation, not support
[26-May-2011 11:31:48] <Jane_Curry> Yup - especially around the "new" (nearly 12 months old) UI
[26-May-2011 11:31:49] <Hackman238> rmatte: Exactly- if this was not the case, many enterprise tickets would never happen. This reduces Zenoss's costs for supporting lower paying customers.
[26-May-2011 11:32:20] <bkarpovich> with the service impact management and analytics capabilities in Enterprise, our goal is to be more "generous"
[26-May-2011 11:32:40] <bkarpovich> on the platform stuff
[26-May-2011 11:32:56] <Jane_Curry> generous??
[26-May-2011 11:32:58] <rmatte> bkarpovich: You don't need to take relstorage away from Core to accomplish that
[26-May-2011 11:33:07] <jmp242> Are you interested in selling the features a la prtg, or the quick up and running solution? I.e. selling the code ought to be cheap - far less than what you're currently charging. If you're selling the whole integrated package, then I understand the costs a lot better - but in that case, having less / unsupported core versions doesn't hurt Enterprise at all
[26-May-2011 11:34:04] <bkarpovich> rmatte: as I said.... tough decisions... we don
[26-May-2011 11:34:35] <bkarpovich> 't always get them right and we are continuing to discuss
[26-May-2011 11:34:59] <jmp242> I.e. you can buy A.D. etc from MS for cheap, but getting it going take s a lot of work. You can also engage MS or a solution provider to do it for you and or help you a long and that costs a lot more, but that's also the value. Where is Zenoss Inc wanting to be on that continuum?
[26-May-2011 11:35:00] <Jane_Curry> What's happening with the DataCenter Insight stuff?  My understanding is that is extra charge to Enterprise and a no-no to Core
[26-May-2011 11:35:16] <dhopp> I got a quote for Enterprise but could not secure a budget.  I have since been able to convince them to go with Core and that could lead to an eventual Enterprise purchase (primarily for support) but taking a key "core" component out of Zenoss Core is making me think twice about this recommendation
[26-May-2011 11:35:59] <jmp242> and note dhopp as a good example. He's not necessarily sold on the Enterprise features, but on the support for the tricky traceback errors etc
[26-May-2011 11:36:08] <Jane_Curry> dhopp - exactly my point.  Eventually, you don't have an "upgrade", you have an "install the new product".  Why do it?
[26-May-2011 11:36:31] <rmatte> bkarpovich: also, while I have you here I just wanted to mention that we recently did some pricing negotiations with you guys for Enterprise, and even after talking the price down quite a bit it was still very high.  I'm sure that your current pricing model works great for large companies like RackSpace for instance... but for small to medium sized companies, and managed services providers that are in their infancy (such as ourselves), it's pretty unreasonable...
[26-May-2011 11:36:38] <Hackman238> bkarpovich: I might add that some large customers, like RackSpace, choose Zenoss for the fact its open source. We buy enterprise Zenoss for the mere fact we must have a supported product. If Zenoss were to close source or branch core- it would limit inernal development and open us to consider other products.
[26-May-2011 11:36:38] <rmatte> I think that there's a lot of room for improvement with that.
[26-May-2011 11:37:45] <Hackman238> rmatte: Yeah I like the way bkarpovich hasn't commented on my questions or remarks.
[26-May-2011 11:38:10] <jmp242> Per what rmatte is saying - where I work we have a budget that would be pretty easy to get to buy a zenpack or two at the $500-$2k mark
[26-May-2011 11:38:45] <jmp242> or to purchase a one off support call at the $300 range or so much per hour, but not at an 8hr minimum commitment etc
[26-May-2011 11:38:58] <bkarpovich> Hackman238:  will definitely comment on your points....
[26-May-2011 11:39:02] <rmatte> One of the big things with the pricing is that it includes full support and all ZenPacks, whether you like it or not.  Beyond logging enterprise bug tickets, we wouldn't need any type of support as I already know the product inside and out.  We'd also only need select ZenPacks.  With the current pricing model we'd be paying to support code and features that we don't use.
[26-May-2011 11:39:02] <jmp242> I want to get across that I'm not looking to be a leach or looking for handouts
[26-May-2011 11:39:04] <Jane_Curry> jmp242 - but who "suppports" your chargeable zenpack?
[26-May-2011 11:39:12] <jmp242> the community
[26-May-2011 11:39:20] <jmp242> or we buy a support pack or something
[26-May-2011 11:39:34] <jmp242> the idea here is that we can buy LOTS of software without a support commitment from lots of vendors
[26-May-2011 11:39:41] <jmp242> i.e. the support is extra
[26-May-2011 11:39:56] <jmp242> we can also get, from MS for instance, packs of 2 or 4 support calls for a price we could afford
[26-May-2011 11:39:58] <rmatte> Yeh, bundling of support is what kills the price
[26-May-2011 11:40:05] <Jane_Curry> and of course one option is to support it yourself
[26-May-2011 11:40:09] <jmp242> right
[26-May-2011 11:40:15] <Hackman238> bkarpovich: I want you to know I look at this problem from the perspective of a rep for a large customer, a business man, a community developer and a consultant with many Zenoss contracts- please don't take anything I say as malice, it's just my perspective.
[26-May-2011 11:40:32] <Jane_Curry> and the ebenfit of a strong community is that you get lots of help
[26-May-2011 11:40:45] <bkarpovich> all -- unfortunately, I need to jump out.   thanks for the initial discussion.  please keep it going.  Nick will bring this all back and we'll directly address in the coming weeks.
[26-May-2011 11:40:47] <rmatte> The price of the code itself should cover the maintenance and development of the code... but if I'm not going to be calling the support team there, then why am I chipping in for their salaries?
[26-May-2011 11:40:52] <jmp242> We've been doing great with Core and no support. Hell, even on the stuff we buy, we generally don't need lots of support time
[26-May-2011 11:41:01] <jmp242> that's why I have a job for instance
[26-May-2011 11:41:03] <Hackman238> bkarpovich: Saved by the bell, huh?
[26-May-2011 11:41:18] <jmp242> so I don't think that changes for buying a zenpack say
[26-May-2011 11:41:22] <bkarpovich> Hackman238: :-)
[26-May-2011 11:41:27] <Hackman238> bkarpovich: We appreciate you're participation in the meeting. Thank you very much!
[26-May-2011 11:41:27] <rocket> Hackman238: fortunately for us he is a very busy guy
[26-May-2011 11:41:32] <rmatte> jmp242: yeh, I provide more support in here (sometimes to Enterprise users) than I ask for, and we've been doing perfectly fine.
[26-May-2011 11:41:38] <jmp242> Thanks for listening
[26-May-2011 11:41:47] <Jane_Curry> Be seein' ya
[26-May-2011 11:41:51] <nyeates> I did state that there would be limited time here, and that this was a question collection phase
[26-May-2011 11:41:57] <jmp242> I know, I've noticed enterprise users on the forums too
[26-May-2011 11:42:09] <jmp242> I assume they sometimes get what they need from there
[26-May-2011 11:42:14] <davetoo> I'm surprised it's actually been 45 minutes already
[26-May-2011 11:42:14] <nyeates> I am definetley going to parse over everything and get it all summarized
[26-May-2011 11:42:23] <rmatte> nyeates: make sure that you make it clear to Bill that we appreciate him showing up... I wasn't expecting that.
[26-May-2011 11:42:27] <rocket> How many CEO's do you find on irc any more?
[26-May-2011 11:42:35] <jmp242> not too many that I know of
[26-May-2011 11:42:42] <jmp242> I'm very glad he at least took the questions
[26-May-2011 11:42:47] <Hackman238> nyeates: Try to reword my stuff so it doesnt sound cold and souless- I just wanted to be clear.
[26-May-2011 11:43:01] <Hackman238> :-)
[26-May-2011 11:43:04] <rmatte> Hackman238: don't worry yourself, my stuff always sounds cold and souless
[26-May-2011 11:43:06] <nyeates> Hackman238: Heh No worries.
[26-May-2011 11:43:33] <rmatte> Hackman238: as long as the point is made, no sense in dressing it up, in my opinion
[26-May-2011 11:43:34] <rmatte>
[26-May-2011 11:43:46] <jmp242> I want it to be clear, there are a lot of people, myself included, who aren't looking for "free" with Zenoss, but who can't pay $xx,xxx + a year either
[26-May-2011 11:43:46] <Jane_Curry> Could we pick up athread about the example ZenPack from the last IRC......
[26-May-2011 11:44:10] <rmatte> jmp242: that's our exact position right now
[26-May-2011 11:44:20] <Hackman238> jmp242: You and many.
[26-May-2011 11:44:20] <Jane_Curry> jmp242 - totally agree.  I think many of us have been trying to get this message through for some time now
[26-May-2011 11:44:27] <jmp242> I don't wat this to be "waaaahhhh!!! you owe us the free toy and work always"
[26-May-2011 11:44:30] <rmatte> jmp242: we'd grab enterprise in a heartbeat if we didn't have to pay for the stuff that we won't use (mostly support)
[26-May-2011 11:44:49] <Jane_Curry> If you want free then it is free but there is NO support for free
[26-May-2011 11:44:52] <dhopp> I should also say that the ability to have Zenoss develop complicated zenpacks (especially since zenpack documentation blows) was a big selling point to us, but just getting the enterprise product licensed was way too much for us.  In the quoting phase we asked for some custom development and the cost of that was even 10% of the overall quote
[26-May-2011 11:44:56] <Hackman238> jmp242: Zenoss turns down a large segment of business by being ignorant to the impact of enterprise costs to small and medium businesses.
[26-May-2011 11:44:58] <jmp242> rmatte: and we'd grab a 1 or 2 call support pack pretty quickly
[26-May-2011 11:45:09] <jmp242> if it was in the $2k range yearly
[26-May-2011 11:45:14] <jmp242> and that's on Core
[26-May-2011 11:45:19] <nyeates> There are so many threads going on in here over the last 45 mins. I think that I cant begin to handle them. I hope this was a useful bit of your alls time and a sign of good things to come.
[26-May-2011 11:45:21] <dhopp> wasn't even..not was even
[26-May-2011 11:45:41] <jmp242> Thanks nyeates...
[26-May-2011 11:45:43] <rmatte> jmp242: when they came back to us with an 80k pricetag for Zenoss Enterprise and Datacenter Insight for 1009 devices, we did a double take to make sure we weren't dreaming lol
[26-May-2011 11:46:03] <jmp242> Yea
[26-May-2011 11:46:10] <jmp242> I wonder what support they're looking at in that
[26-May-2011 11:46:16] <nyeates> How abouts we let the convo's continue, and see where stuff goes. Also if you have TECHNICAL questions, bring them now as there are some devs in room
[26-May-2011 11:46:17] <jmp242> I mean, are they configuring it for you?
[26-May-2011 11:46:45] <Jane_Curry> Could we pick up athread about the example ZenPack from the last IRC......
[26-May-2011 11:46:51] <rmatte> jmp242: and that was for the SILVER package, where you get 4 phonecalls and 8 hour response time on emails
[26-May-2011 11:46:59] <nyeates> Jane: go for it
[26-May-2011 11:47:30] <nyeates> Jane: give background....not sure if the person who was here last time is here
[26-May-2011 11:47:44] <rmatte> nyeates: that's what IRC logs are for -> "I think that I cant begin to handle them"
[26-May-2011 11:47:48] <rmatte>
[26-May-2011 11:47:53] <dpetzel> I just wanted to circle back on the issue folks were helping with before. Adding the sync() to the line before my commit() has resolved the conflict errors in my dmd script. I still want to explore the session and try block, but for now that seemed to do the trick
[26-May-2011 11:47:54] <Jane_Curry> Finally pulled the example ZenPack as it was suggested last IRC that it might be a start towards good practice examples....
[26-May-2011 11:48:10] <rmatte> dpetzel: excellent
[26-May-2011 11:48:21] <Jane_Curry> It shows as "not tested" on the website
[26-May-2011 11:48:45] <rmatte> Jane_Curry: I don't think that pack has been touched for a while... It probably hasn't even been updated for 3.x
[26-May-2011 11:49:06] <nyeates> my savior, zenoss-logger :-)
[26-May-2011 11:49:19] <Jane_Curry> It only has a py2.4 version...
[26-May-2011 11:49:42] <Jane_Curry> .. and the install fails (even after renaming the egg)
[26-May-2011 11:50:06] <Jane_Curry> this ain't gonna help much with 3.0 UI good practices and examples, I fear
[26-May-2011 11:50:55] <nyeates> which pack referiung to?
[26-May-2011 11:51:09] <Hackman238> Jane_Curry: agreed. We need rocket or another Zenoss master to audit some packs and point out good examples of pristine code.
[26-May-2011 11:51:24] <Jane_Curry> ZenPacks.example.Techniques-1.4.1
[26-May-2011 11:51:49] <Jane_Curry> there was a debate last time that it might provide 3.0 UI help.......
[26-May-2011 11:51:50] <nyeates> Rocket will be helping on this general problem, as we QA and review through Janes doc
[26-May-2011 11:52:12] <nyeates> Hopefully we will see holes too, and suggest places where new documentation can be added
[26-May-2011 11:52:43] <magman> Have you guys looked at the latest ZenPack
[26-May-2011 11:53:06] <Jane_Curry> Another suggestion last time was to build a ZenPacks tutorial offering
[26-May-2011 11:53:13] <magman> https://github.com/zenoss/ZenPacks.zenoss.OpenStack
[26-May-2011 11:53:34] <Jane_Curry> There has been a little interest shown, but not enough, per se, to justify the load of work it would take
[26-May-2011 11:53:37] <magman> it pretty much follows best practice all the way
[26-May-2011 11:53:54] <magman> Facades, Routers, 3.0 UI, etc.
[26-May-2011 11:54:13] <rmatte> Jane_Curry: it probably has outdated skin files and such
[26-May-2011 11:55:57] <nyeates> Intersting about the OpenStack ZP Chet is making, i didnt know of this
[26-May-2011 11:56:08] <nyeates> Just a few days old :-)
[26-May-2011 11:56:42] <nyeates> cluther: any comments on if that ZenPack is a good example of 3.0 UI element interaction?
[26-May-2011 11:57:28] <cluther> nyeates: Yes, it and the CloudFoundry packs are good examples of best practices for ZenPacks compatible with Zenoss 3.0 or 3,1,
[26-May-2011 11:57:53] <rmatte> cluther: awesome, I'll have to take a look then.
[26-May-2011 11:58:37] <nyeates> cluther: is its skeleton or basic logic based off any prior zenpack, or made from scratch?
[26-May-2011 11:58:43] <cluther> The OpenStack pack even shows never before seen examples on how to tie your custom components into the Enterprise dynamic view stuff if you're running Zenoss Enterprise.
[26-May-2011 11:59:20] <Jane_Curry> I don't even see it on the ZenPacks site - give me a clue - not under "O" for OpenStack
[26-May-2011 11:59:47] <rocket> https://github.com/zenoss/ZenPacks.zenoss.OpenStack
[26-May-2011 11:59:52] <nyeates> No its not on the main site Jane_Curry, I just found out about it myself
[26-May-2011 11:59:54] <cluther> Jane_Curry: It's a spare-time project of mine that hasn't really been released yet.
[26-May-2011 12:00:01] [disconnected at Thu May 26 12:00:01 2011]
[26-May-2011 12:00:02] [connected at Thu May 26 12:00:02 2011]
[26-May-2011 12:00:20] [zenoss-logger (logger bot) has joined #zenoss]
[26-May-2011 12:00:48] <nyeates> Also https://github.com/zenoss/ZenPacks.zenoss.CloudFoundry
[26-May-2011 12:01:10] <Jane_Curry> OK - can see it there - thought I was missing something on the ZenPacks page - I'll grab it if I may?
[26-May-2011 12:01:24] <nyeates> I am behind on sync'ing up our ZenPack listing with what has been submited....feel free to yell at me :-)
[26-May-2011 12:01:27] <rocket> Jane_Curry: its fair game there ..
[26-May-2011 12:02:06] <cluther> Some of the patterns used in those packs have been around for a while, but only implemented in Enterprise ZenPacks.
[26-May-2011 12:03:00] <Jane_Curry> but presumably this stuff will work on Core??
[26-May-2011 12:03:05] <cluther> Jane_Curry: Absolutely.
[26-May-2011 12:04:00] <Jane_Curry> Many thanks, Chet
[26-May-2011 12:04:17] <Hackman238> cluther: I'd be interested in testing or assisting with your openstack Zenpack
[26-May-2011 12:04:33] <Hackman238> cluther: I say so since I have open in development for a customer now
[26-May-2011 12:04:45] <Hackman238> *one
[26-May-2011 12:05:17] <Hackman238> cluther: Idea being to cloudify and fully automate Zenoss
[26-May-2011 12:05:28] <cluther> Hackman238: I had a feeling.. if you look closely you'll see that it currently is only doing consumer perspective monitoring of cloud servers (nova).
[26-May-2011 12:05:38] <cluther> I did test it against Rackspace's Cloud Servers though.
[26-May-2011 12:05:56] <nyeates> Matt Ray had done some neat interactions between chef and openstack....wondering if zenoss can be wound into that stack
[26-May-2011 12:06:12] <Hackman238> nyeates: Thats what Im doing ;-)
[26-May-2011 12:06:41] <nyeates> cluther: so its using the "public facing" http rest API?
[26-May-2011 12:06:46] <nyeates> of openstack
[26-May-2011 12:06:57] <Hackman238> nyeates: Chef goes to add clients, sees if a collector is free, if no collector spool up a new collector, automatically configure it, add the client, and reverse the process when collectors are free'd up
[26-May-2011 12:07:02] <cluther> nyeates: yes, that's right
[26-May-2011 12:07:21] <cluther> Hackman238: Awesome.
[26-May-2011 12:07:34] <Hackman238> nyeates: Result is a cloud of collectors for huge clients- ;-)
[26-May-2011 12:08:14] <nyeates> wow, spin up a new collector each client....cool!
[26-May-2011 12:08:17] <Hackman238> nyeates: This is why Zenoss will die without supporting the community. Many of my enterprise size customers use core and pay me to build solutions because its cheaper than ent!
[26-May-2011 12:08:36] <squig> some one will fork
[26-May-2011 12:09:09] <nyeates> I am going to deem the dev meeting officially ended. Thanks all for participating, including our CEO, and see you next time. Continue convos if you wish.
[26-May-2011 12:09:15] <Hackman238> nyeates: With an ideal pricing model, I'd have little or no business in Zenoss consulting because there would be no market
[26-May-2011 12:09:22] <Jane_Curry> thanks, Nick
[26-May-2011 12:09:27] <Hackman238> Thanks again Nick
[26-May-2011 12:10:06] <rmatte> Hackman238: I'm sure there would still be some interest
[26-May-2011 12:10:22] <Hackman238> rmatte: Some yes, but not enough for it to be profitable.
[26-May-2011 12:10:42] <nyeates> I for one am interested in a chef openstack zenoss tie up
[26-May-2011 12:10:43] <Hackman238> rmatte: Zenoss's failure to capitalize on all the market makes my niche market.
[26-May-2011 12:10:52] <rmatte> true
[26-May-2011 12:11:00] <Hackman238> nyeates/cluther: I'll get you infos soon.
[26-May-2011 12:11:25] <rmatte> nyeates: then matt ray and chet are going to need to get together and make one hehe
[26-May-2011 12:11:28] <Hackman238> rmatte: And I'm telling them how to fix it so the product doesnt die. It'll take money out of my pocket, but I can't work like this forever.
[26-May-2011 12:11:43] <rmatte> Hackman238: yeh, for sure
[26-May-2011 12:12:07] <rmatte> Their pricing model blows my mind right now, they really really need to do something about it
[26-May-2011 12:12:12] <rmatte> I mean, it's worse than it was before
[26-May-2011 12:12:12] <dhopp> Hackman238: if you are giving money away I can give you my address :-P
[26-May-2011 12:12:13] <rmatte> lol
[26-May-2011 12:12:16] <Hackman238> rmatte: I'll get you some info on my openstack/chef setup too
[26-May-2011 12:12:26] <rmatte> Hackman238: cool
[26-May-2011 12:12:30] <nyeates> allright all, im out...later
[26-May-2011 12:12:31] <mattray> Hackman238: feel free to send it to me
[26-May-2011 12:12:35] <Hackman238> dhopp: Well not giving away money, I just dont want Zenoss to die as a product.
[26-May-2011 12:12:35] <rmatte> Hackman238: did you send me those IPSLA pack links?
[26-May-2011 12:12:45] <dhopp> Hackman238: I was kidding
[26-May-2011 12:12:47] <rmatte> I didn't see an email indicating a message
[26-May-2011 12:12:55] <Hackman238> rmatte: Doh! Sorry, I forgot. PM me a reminder please :-)
[26-May-2011 12:13:03] <rmatte> Hackman238: ok, will do
[26-May-2011 12:13:16] <Hackman238> rmatte: Busy busy!
[26-May-2011 12:13:22] <rmatte> I know the drill
[26-May-2011 12:14:35] <rmatte> sent
[26-May-2011 12:14:44] <Hackman238> rmatte: Thanks much
[26-May-2011 12:14:50] <rmatte> no no, thank you
[26-May-2011 12:15:03] <rmatte> It's going to make this upcoming IPSLA project of ours much easier
[26-May-2011 12:15:16] <rmatte> well, much easier on me anyways
[26-May-2011 12:15:18] <rmatte> less coding
[26-May-2011 12:15:28] <rmatte>
[26-May-2011 12:15:28] <Hackman238> rmatte: thats my job :-) The only thing one can really do is contribute to the world.
[26-May-2011 12:15:35] <rmatte> agreed
[26-May-2011 12:15:51] <rmatte> management here was originally against contributing ZenPacks that I developed while working here...
[26-May-2011 12:15:57] <rmatte> until I explained that you give and you get
[26-May-2011 12:16:00] <rmatte> it's a 2 way street
[26-May-2011 12:16:27] <rmatte> We're mostly a windows shop here, so not much open source mentality floating around
[26-May-2011 12:16:36] <rmatte> They were an all windows shop until our group came along
[26-May-2011 12:17:18] <rmatte> I'm one of three people that know Linux in the building.  One is a pure UNIX admin by trade (AIX, HP-UX, Solaris), and the other is a web developer.
[26-May-2011 12:17:40] <rmatte> I end up getting all of the really fun professional services jobs though
[26-May-2011 12:17:49] <Hackman238> rmatte: Thats exactly right. Additionally no one person can know everything.
[26-May-2011 12:17:55] <rmatte> My most recent project is migrating a CVS server from a windows server to Linux
[26-May-2011 12:18:07] <Hackman238> rmatte: I can bet you my openstack zenpack can borrow code from chets and chets from mine ;-)
[26-May-2011 12:18:14] <rmatte> setting up AD auth on the linux box, also moving a bunch of things like bugzilla, wiki, etc... off of their old linux box to the new one
[26-May-2011 12:18:22] <Hackman238> rmatte: nice
[26-May-2011 12:18:33] <rmatte> then duplicating horrid integration that they had between bugzilla and cvs
[26-May-2011 12:18:58] <rmatte> they had the windows server sending an email to a gmail account, then the linux server scraping the emails from there and generating an entry in bugzilla
[26-May-2011 12:19:06] <rmatte> I modified the process so that it's all internal to the box
[26-May-2011 12:19:15] <rmatte> I had to use the existing scripts though so it's still done via email
[26-May-2011 12:19:16] <rmatte> but whatever
[26-May-2011 12:19:52] <rmatte> Hackman238: probably, you should talk to Chet about that
[26-May-2011 12:19:57] <rmatte> so that you're not reinventing the wheel
[26-May-2011 12:20:57] <rmatte> My next project for that same customer is doing an in-house installation of Zenoss for them
[26-May-2011 12:21:02] <rmatte> and then training them how to use it
[26-May-2011 12:21:11] <rmatte> should be fun