Major Topics:

Chef support on Zenoss 3.2.1 announced,

Zenoss on showroom floor at LISA 2011 conference,

Upcoming 4.x architecture discussed,

  zeneventserver will be java, zeneventd is still python,

  move to postgres will wait a bit,

ZenPack development changes,

  New zenpacks held at github.com/your_username,

  Egg downloads will be on github,

  github move is a long-term process that will require a learning curve now

[08-Dec-2011 10:26:49] <jmp242> Anyone have a comment for this thread?: message/63135#63135

[08-Dec-2011 10:31:18] <Trebortech> jpm242: So when they remove the device and add again it showed?

[08-Dec-2011 10:33:00] <jmp242> that wasn't too clear to me

[08-Dec-2011 10:34:23] <Trebortech> that's why I asked :-)… My guess would be they didn't have it added in production state as you advised and when they recreated they selected the correct production state.

[08-Dec-2011 10:36:31] <nyeates> FYI, There will be a dev meeting in about 25 mins in here.

[08-Dec-2011 10:53:16] <jmp242> I did ask in the thread

[08-Dec-2011 10:57:38] <nyeates> Hi James

[08-Dec-2011 11:00:37] <nyeates> themactech: how goes it? Any zenoss questions or curiosities lately?

[08-Dec-2011 11:01:32] <themactech> sorry multitasking

[08-Dec-2011 11:01:35] pmcguire is now known as ptmcg

[08-Dec-2011 11:01:46] <themactech> No questions now, I have had to put zenoss stuff on backburner

[08-Dec-2011 11:01:59] <mattray> for anyone using Zenoss with Chef, just committed Zenoss 3.2.1 support

[08-Dec-2011 11:02:16] <themactech> has 2 engineers leave and we booked a few jobs, I've gone 30+ hours without sleep twice in last week

[08-Dec-2011 11:02:29] <mattray> yikes

[08-Dec-2011 11:02:55] <themactech> We are going to have to get together to make an outline for a presentation at Penn State Mac Admin conference sometime after the x-mas holiday

[08-Dec-2011 11:03:04] <nyeates> mattray: oh shnap! nice. I will let the OpsCode guys here know....im sitting in LISA now

[08-Dec-2011 11:03:59] <themactech> hey Matt, you still doing a lot of Mac stuff at your new place?  If so you should look at the Penn State Mac Sysadmin conference

[08-Dec-2011 11:04:15] <nyeates> themactech: yes. for sure. I want to take a look into Matt Rays Mac OS X ZenPack, maybe update it for 3.0 and bring that to the conference

[08-Dec-2011 11:04:16] <themactech> went last year for first time, insane amount of gurus in one place

[08-Dec-2011 11:04:21] <mattray> themactech: unfortunately we're doing a lot of Windows

[08-Dec-2011 11:04:41] <themactech> you have my sincere sympathies

[08-Dec-2011 11:04:50] <themactech> I have to do windows too once in awhile

[08-Dec-2011 11:04:54] <mattray> nyeates: the OSX ZenPack was supposed to be a tutorial series, slowly fleshing out OSX completely

[08-Dec-2011 11:05:08] <mattray> changing jobs ended the series

[08-Dec-2011 11:05:15] <themactech> I curl in a fetal position in shower weeping afterwards, repeating over and over "it won't come off"

[08-Dec-2011 11:05:32] <mattray> themactech: Chef does have a lot of OSX support

[08-Dec-2011 11:05:35] <nyeates> mattray: "slowly fleshing out OSX completely" .... I do not get this

[08-Dec-2011 11:05:37] <themactech> I am now working on a promise vtrack profile

[08-Dec-2011 11:05:53] <mattray> nyeates: if you look at the ZenPack, it's quite limited. A little bit of modeling

[08-Dec-2011 11:06:09] <themactech> since I have given up making custom components until 4.2 and the better doc comes out, I am going the shell scripting filter route instead

[08-Dec-2011 11:06:22] <themactech> not my plan A but I need to deploy something better right now

[08-Dec-2011 11:06:33] <mattray> themactech: packages with dmgs and homebrew, services, all that stuff. Lots of folks manage OSX workstations with Chef

[08-Dec-2011 11:06:35] <themactech> I am going to department of state later today to deploy Zenoss

[08-Dec-2011 11:07:19] <themactech> the guys who write chef, munki, and deploy studio were all at the Penn State conference last year

[08-Dec-2011 11:10:13] <nyeates> themactech: any high-level info you might want about custom components in 4.2, that we should either look into or see if a dev could talk to now?

[08-Dec-2011 11:10:49] <Hackman238> Hey all

[08-Dec-2011 11:10:50] <mattray> nyeates: is the install going to take even more resources? 4 gigs of RAM for the minimal install is painful

[08-Dec-2011 11:11:02] <mattray> especially when you're testing writing installation

[08-Dec-2011 11:11:21] <mattray> there's now Java in the mix too right?

[08-Dec-2011 11:11:34] <Hackman238> mattray: Its RAM hungry on the account it uses a combo of memcached and jetty

[08-Dec-2011 11:11:35] <jgartman> There is.

[08-Dec-2011 11:11:43] <nyeates> Hi Shane

[08-Dec-2011 11:12:37] <mattray> Hackman238: oh joy. Zope, MySQL, Jetty, Memcached on a single box? Is it going to be documented how to separate these to multiple machines for open source users?

[08-Dec-2011 11:12:47] <Hackman238> mattray: Though I've been able to run tiny test instances with as little as 2GB of RAM if you're very careful not to spawn too many modeler processes

[08-Dec-2011 11:13:01] <mattray> Hackman238: it takes 20+ minutes to install though

[08-Dec-2011 11:13:04] <themactech> I can't really pitch in any insight on anything related to 4.2, I have not had time to look into it or do testing.  The only reason I can be here for a bit is I got stranded by a client, he bailed on me for 30 minutes and I am stuck waiting for him.  When he shows I have to disconnect

[08-Dec-2011 11:13:07] <Hackman238> mattray: Yep. It is documented and it's not too bad

[08-Dec-2011 11:13:22] <nyeates> mattray: there is java in the mix - I think mostly in the new event system. zeneventd

[08-Dec-2011 11:13:23] <mattray> Hackman238: good, I'll automate that

[08-Dec-2011 11:13:38] <mattray> nyeates: yeah, I just don't want everything on a single box

[08-Dec-2011 11:13:58] <Hackman238> mattray: The mysql thats included is now wrapped in a crispy shell and called 'zends'. I dont know if this will be the case in the Core release.

[08-Dec-2011 11:14:10] <Hackman238> nyeates: Hey, how goes it?

[08-Dec-2011 11:14:27] <ptmcg> zeneventd is still python, you mean zeneventserver

[08-Dec-2011 11:14:33] <nyeates> mattray: what I will do, is record Simons BoF tonight here at LISA on video, and post it. He is speaking about the features and architecture of the coming 4.x core

[08-Dec-2011 11:14:40] <cluther> Hackman238: ZenDS won't be in the core release.

[08-Dec-2011 11:14:52] <Hackman238> cluther: Gotcha. Good to know.

[08-Dec-2011 11:15:28] <Hackman238> cluther: Any chance we'll move to postgres?

[08-Dec-2011 11:15:29] <nyeates> ptmcg: thanks. zeneventserver = java, zeneventd = python... yes?

[08-Dec-2011 11:15:37] <ptmcg> yep

[08-Dec-2011 11:15:38] <jgartman> nyeates: yes

[08-Dec-2011 11:15:39] <Hackman238> nyeates: yep

[08-Dec-2011 11:16:12] <jgartman> Hackman238: The word on high is "not anymore"

[08-Dec-2011 11:16:34] <Hackman238> jgartman: Really? Even with the costs?

[08-Dec-2011 11:16:37] <jgartman> er, something like "not right now" would probably be more accurate.

[08-Dec-2011 11:16:38] <cluther> Hackman238: Not for 4.2, but we will.

[08-Dec-2011 11:16:53] <Hackman238> cluther:  / jgartman: Gotcha

[08-Dec-2011 11:17:02] <Hackman238> cluther: That SMS pack update is working

[08-Dec-2011 11:17:09] <Hackman238> cluther: TY very much

[08-Dec-2011 11:17:17] <mattray> fwiw, Oracle is getting litigious about embedding mysql in commercial applications

[08-Dec-2011 11:17:29] <zenphil> FYI, the 4.2 release may be announced as 4.1.1 even though it has a lot of improvement.

[08-Dec-2011 11:17:56] <mattray> more aggressive than Sun was. Opscode ripped out MySQL for PostgreSQL in our commercial offering

[08-Dec-2011 11:17:58] <Hackman238> mattray: Crazy.

[08-Dec-2011 11:18:09] <Hackman238> zenphil: Good to know. Why's that?

[08-Dec-2011 11:19:49] <cgw> 4.1.1 just have perf and scale improvements as opposed to functionality?

[08-Dec-2011 11:20:13] <ptmcg> "just" he says

[08-Dec-2011 11:20:22] <ptmcg> a ton

[08-Dec-2011 11:21:11] <jgartman> cgw: 4.1.1 is a pretty significant release w/r/t perf/scale things. Has a lot of things we have learned from huge deployments.

[08-Dec-2011 11:21:27] <cgw> well... hence only 4.1.1 rather than 4.2 my point

[08-Dec-2011 11:21:27] <Jane_Curry> what about the new events functionality - will that make it to 4.1.1??

[08-Dec-2011 11:21:37] <Hackman238> jgartman: *cough*

[08-Dec-2011 11:21:48] <ptmcg> New events is in 4.0, what add'l were you looking for?

[08-Dec-2011 11:21:59] <nyeates> mattray: Intersting on the Oracle front. We are in the legal I beleive - paying them for the commercial inclusion.

[08-Dec-2011 11:22:00] <nyeates> for now

[08-Dec-2011 11:22:08] <jgartman> Hackman238: I'm on your system right now watching that one *specific* daemon stop/restart for some mysterious reason

[08-Dec-2011 11:22:28] <Jane_Curry> Core doesn't have 4.0 yet - what will Core users get in the "next significant release"?

[08-Dec-2011 11:23:15] <mattray> nyeates: we weren't even using MySQL technically, just Percona. We wanted a commercial license for libmysql

[08-Dec-2011 11:23:16] <Hackman238> jgartman: BTW, that troublesome notification schedule is under 'Crit_Evt_SMS_BB_1st_S_Notification'

[08-Dec-2011 11:23:19] <Jane_Curry> And when will the beta arrive - early december (2011 ) was the latest estimate I heard

[08-Dec-2011 11:23:28] <ptmcg> Oof, sorry - yes, new event stuff will be in 4.1.1

[08-Dec-2011 11:23:30] <jgartman> Hackman238: Excellent, I will look at that as well.

[08-Dec-2011 11:24:08] <Hackman238> jgartman: Any idea why that daemon keeps committing hari kari without a leaving a suicide note?

[08-Dec-2011 11:24:11] <zenphil> Jane: soon, late December most likely

[08-Dec-2011 11:24:12] <Hackman238> jgartman: Thanks man

[08-Dec-2011 11:24:14] <Jane_Curry> Hi cluther - how's the promised documentation coming on???

[08-Dec-2011 11:24:32] <Jane_Curry> Do you need an external reviewer??

[08-Dec-2011 11:24:37] <nyeates> ZenPack devs.... just fyi... new zenPacks will now be primarily hosted at github.com/your_username - not github.com/zenoss

[08-Dec-2011 11:24:47] <jgartman> Hackman238: Right now I'm baffled. It's getting a sigterm and logging as such; doesn't seem to be a code path that is exploding and bringing it down.

[08-Dec-2011 11:25:38] <Hackman238> jgartman: Strange. Keep me posted. And thanks for the hard work, it's appreciated.

[08-Dec-2011 11:25:43] <mattray> nyeates: will there be a place to download built eggs?

[08-Dec-2011 11:25:50] <Jane_Curry> nyeates: Yeh - I saw your note yesterday and thought that was what it meant....

[08-Dec-2011 11:26:05] <mattray> err, ZenPacks?

[08-Dec-2011 11:26:13] <cluther> Jane_Curry: I haven't done it yet, but I'll be sure that you're in the first to know when anything can be reviewed.

[08-Dec-2011 11:26:51] <Jane_Curry> So the onus is now on ZenPack developers to drive github and maintain ZenPacks, rather than Zenoss co-ordinating this????????????????

[08-Dec-2011 11:28:02] <nyeates> mattray: Yes. We plan to implement egg downloading inside of each github repository in the "Downloads" section.

[08-Dec-2011 11:28:12] <Jane_Curry> I guess this is good for developers that know their way around git but bad for the smaller contributors who have just knocked up something useful and want to share...

[08-Dec-2011 11:28:48] <mattray> nyeates: and Zenoss will provide those Downloads in their own github for their ZenPacks?

[08-Dec-2011 11:28:53] <Hackman238> Jane_Curry: 'knocked up' in America means something else.

[08-Dec-2011 11:29:08] <Jane_Curry> <cluther>  I caught something from you yesterday about updating the zentrap dies ticket - but I can't see any updates?????

[08-Dec-2011 11:29:37] <Jane_Curry> So sorry - two nations divided by a common language again

[08-Dec-2011 11:29:41] <nyeates> Jane_Curry: This change is good for both devs and zenoss and everyone.

[08-Dec-2011 11:30:52] <nyeates> Jane_Curry: It is one less step for you guys to do and remember. Less pull requests on your part, and we link to all zenpacks at https://github.com/zenoss/Community-ZenPacks-SubModules

[08-Dec-2011 11:31:21] <Jane_Curry> nyeates: I can see it is good for devs and Zenoss but I suspect it may raise the bar too high for casual devs   (is "raising the bar too high" naughty-speak too??)

[08-Dec-2011 11:32:32] <jgartman> Jane_Curry: What are you concerned about that casual devs will have trouble with?

[08-Dec-2011 11:32:45] <nyeates> Jane_Curry: You had to post it to your personal git anyway, so no extra work there. Are you thinking that it will be hard for you to learn how to accept other peopls changes?

[08-Dec-2011 11:35:25] <nyeates> mattray: correct. Egg downloads will be located in our own ZenPacks at github.com/zenoss

[08-Dec-2011 11:35:25] <rocket> Jane_Curry: technically, having your own repo will actually simplify things significantly, after all, all you have to do is make a repo and tell us about it....

[08-Dec-2011 11:35:55] <Jane_Curry> jgartman:  I found it non-trivial getting to grips with git - I am not at all a "heavy" developer.  In the past, Zenoss coped with push requests and maintenance

[08-Dec-2011 11:36:15] <rocket> Jane_Curry: instead of worrying about forking and submitting pull requests.....

[08-Dec-2011 11:36:34] <mattray> nyeates: are there any available now?

[08-Dec-2011 11:37:13] <mattray> nyeates: I see a lot of repos, but no downloads

[08-Dec-2011 11:37:18] <jgartman> Jane_Curry: Ah I see, git itself. You're right, it takes some getting used to.

[08-Dec-2011 11:37:28] <rocket> Jane_Curry: also, the current state of affairs is just an intermediary step.... eventually we'll have github integration in the product and all you have to do is push a button to share

[08-Dec-2011 11:37:53] <mattray> nyeates: ok, found some

[08-Dec-2011 11:38:17] <rocket> mattray: you're correct, we're currently building the infrastructure to automate all this stuff

[08-Dec-2011 11:38:26] <mattray> rocket: ok, good

[08-Dec-2011 11:38:27] <rocket> btw: this is Simon

[08-Dec-2011 11:38:54] <rocket> from the LISA showfloor, where are you anyway mattray?

[08-Dec-2011 11:39:10] <mattray> rocket: I'm not there, was supposed to be doing training this week

[08-Dec-2011 11:39:20] <mattray> I'd expect there to be a download for each ZenPack in the Zenoss GitHub account, even the community ones

[08-Dec-2011 11:39:37] <Jane_Curry> I know that became an onerous burden on Zenoss but I am a little concerned that some folk will give up rather than donate code

[08-Dec-2011 11:39:58] <Jane_Curry> Perhaps it is an area where the Zenoss Community Alliance could help users????

[08-Dec-2011 11:40:00] <rocket> trust me, it will all be glorious

[08-Dec-2011 11:41:06] <Jane_Curry> and wonderful and marvellous and splendiferous ..... eventually

[08-Dec-2011 11:41:15] <nyeates> Jane_Curry: Git has a learning curve, it will take time to get this all straight.... We think it is the forward-thinking and right way to go in the long run.

[08-Dec-2011 11:41:24] <nyeates> Pain now for gain later

[08-Dec-2011 11:41:36] <cluther> All of the git instructions are for people who want to do it themselves. Power to the people.

[08-Dec-2011 11:41:44] <Jane_Curry> LOng run - definitely.  Especially when there is help built-in to Core

[08-Dec-2011 11:41:53] <rocket> Jane_Curry: again, this is not about saving us work, this is a intermediary step towards making all this easier and tearing down barriers to contribution

[08-Dec-2011 11:42:17] <jgartman> git will really be a boon to the type of development that happens around zenpacks in the community. I know it's not much consolation now.

[08-Dec-2011 11:42:43] <rocket> it actually worries me that you think otherwise...

[08-Dec-2011 11:42:44] <cluther> If you have some ZenPack code and want to share it, you could still just send it to us the old fashioned way.

[08-Dec-2011 11:43:53] <nyeates> An example of git's usability from LISA: A user in a zenoss forum asked how they could easily find a piece of example code for their issue. They hated having to download eggs one by one, install them, then look for the code. The instructor brought up github.com/zenoss , and delved into 2 zenpacks code in the matter  of 30 seconds.

[08-Dec-2011 11:45:22] <Jane_Curry> Anyone got any comments on the thread her thread/14559 about the NewDeviceMap modeler - looks like a long-running saga

[08-Dec-2011 11:47:21] <zenphil> I'll check Trac and add it as a ticket if it's not already known by the dev team.

[08-Dec-2011 11:52:32] <nyeates> By the way - anyone here not familiar with LISA, Large Installation System Administration Conference.... You ought to be.

[08-Dec-2011 11:54:39] <nyeates> Its THE premier place to be for IT Ops geeks. I talked to the originators of RRD and Nagios in the halls, and attended BoFs by industry heavy weights. Neat stuff. Look into it for next year

[08-Dec-2011 11:56:08] lonetech007_ is now known as lonetech007

[08-Dec-2011 11:57:03] <nyeates> With this lull, I am going to stop the IRC dev session here. Back to the conference floor for me.

[08-Dec-2011 12:00:01] [disconnected at Thu Dec  8 12:00:01 2011]

[08-Dec-2011 12:00:02] [connected at Thu Dec  8 12:00:02 2011]

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[08-Dec-2011 12:04:34] <Jane_Curry> <zenphil> If you open a ticket, please could you update the forum thread with that info?? Thanks for doing this