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[27-May-2006 13:32:04] <oubiwann> gonna test the logging of the bot now...
[27-May-2006 13:34:11] <oubiwann> sweet, logs are up
[27-May-2006 13:34:13] <oubiwann> http://www2.adytum.us/adytum-irclogs/%23zenoss%40freenode.log
[27-May-2006 13:38:42] <oubiwann> so, anyway, about your email -- yeah, Erik wants me to start working on zenstatus
[27-May-2006 13:39:16] <oubiwann> I'm the author of pymon, which is essentially a status checker
[27-May-2006 13:39:24] <oubiwann> 100% twistsed, of course :-)
[27-May-2006 13:46:17] <ecn> of course
[27-May-2006 13:46:29] <ecn> twisted is all good ;-)
[27-May-2006 13:46:52] <ecn> help me make fun of Erik for using nasty threads
[27-May-2006 14:16:35] <oubiwann> oh, indeed
[27-May-2006 14:17:16] <oubiwann> in fact, I was looking over the current ZenStatus, and I'm going to suggest redoing all of it :-)
[27-May-2006 14:18:21] <oubiwann> I'm going to be heading out for the day within an hour or so...
[27-May-2006 14:18:59] <oubiwann> but before I go, I wanted to bring up some admin stuff in case you know the answers or can actually do it :-)
[27-May-2006 14:19:58] <oubiwann> I work in branches -- what do I need to do to get write-access to the repos?
[27-May-2006 14:20:33] <oubiwann> I'd also like to start making comments on the wiki as well as documenting my stuff there... do you guys have auth for that in Apache?
[27-May-2006 14:20:57] <oubiwann> hmmm... I think those are the only q's I have for now :-)
[27-May-2006 14:41:46] <oubiwann> okay, I'm heading out now -- catch ya later :-)
[27-May-2006 15:39:25] <ecn> Erik will have to provide a login
[27-May-2006 15:39:30] <ecn> see email
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[30-May-2006 12:16:40] <creiht> Howdy
[30-May-2006 12:16:55] <oubiwann> creiht : hey
[30-May-2006 12:17:05] <creiht> So did I guess correctly and is this channel for Zenoss?
[30-May-2006 12:17:14] <oubiwann> indeed you did :-)
[30-May-2006 12:17:17] <creiht> hehe
[30-May-2006 12:17:40] <oubiwann> it's unofficial as yet, but well be posting the information on the site probably this month
[30-May-2006 12:17:47] <creiht> ahhh
[30-May-2006 12:17:48] <creiht> cool
[30-May-2006 12:17:57] <creiht> Well someone pointed me to your site today
[30-May-2006 12:18:04] <creiht> And I'm interested
[30-May-2006 12:18:04] <oubiwann> sweet!
[30-May-2006 12:18:12] <oubiwann> who told you about us
[30-May-2006 12:18:22] <creiht> A co-worker
[30-May-2006 12:18:33] <oubiwann> awesome
[30-May-2006 12:19:21] <creiht> I'm waiting for everything to build on my laptop right now
[30-May-2006 12:19:29] <creiht> So I thought I would see if anyone was here
[30-May-2006 12:19:50] <creiht> I've read all the marketing stuff on the website
[30-May-2006 12:21:08] <creiht> Wanted to get a better feel for the community
[30-May-2006 12:21:12] <creiht> doh
[30-May-2006 12:21:15] <creiht> lunch time
[30-May-2006 12:21:15] <creiht> bbl
[30-May-2006 12:28:24] <oubiwann> cool
[30-May-2006 12:28:53] <oubiwann> I've got an appointment this morning, but I'll be back in a couple hours (I'm in CO)
[30-May-2006 12:57:30] <ecn> i gotta find out a way to get this IM client to tell me when stuff happens in here
[30-May-2006 12:57:39] <oubiwann> heh
[30-May-2006 12:58:08] <oubiwann> I use bitchx (terminal) and have the visual "bell" set :-)
[30-May-2006 12:58:30] <oubiwann> needless to say, it's also given me epilepsy
[30-May-2006 12:58:36] <ecn> ya, except i have other clients who are using other IM systems
[30-May-2006 13:01:50] <ecn> just talked to Erik (he's at a conference today & tomorrow)
[30-May-2006 13:02:07] <ecn> he says to just work from the trunk until he gets you set up
[30-May-2006 13:02:10] <oubiwann> how's the conf goin?
[30-May-2006 13:02:16] <oubiwann> cool -- sounds good
[30-May-2006 13:02:22] <ecn> good, I guess... not much happening so far
[30-May-2006 13:03:56] <oubiwann> I actually created a branch already (working copy), so when I get svn access, the commit will push the new branch up to the server
[30-May-2006 13:04:01] <oubiwann> it's just a copy of trunk
[30-May-2006 13:04:05] <ecn> ok
[30-May-2006 13:13:05] <creiht> So here's the big question
[30-May-2006 13:13:25] <creiht> How scalable is the monitoring?
[30-May-2006 13:13:48] <creiht> Can I monitor 50K nodes? 100k nodes?
[30-May-2006 13:19:31] <oubiwann> I'm actually new to it myself, just learning it now
[30-May-2006 13:19:32] <oubiwann> but
[30-May-2006 13:20:41] <oubiwann> for things like ssh checks, the bottleneck is the network, not the software
[30-May-2006 13:21:32] <oubiwann> 100,000 bits of data updates coming in every second is common place for
[30-May-2006 13:21:38] <oubiwann> "enterprise" apps
[30-May-2006 13:22:02] <oubiwann> the software the Zenoss is built with is proven in this arena
[30-May-2006 13:22:40] <oubiwann> that's not to say that you won'y notice the load ;-)
[30-May-2006 13:22:43] <creiht> heh
[30-May-2006 13:23:23] <oubiwann> I've gotta jet for the appointment I mentioned, but ecn knows the system much better than I do
[30-May-2006 13:23:32] <oubiwann> so he should have some good info for you
[30-May-2006 13:23:42] <creiht> I have found Scaling in monitoring systems (especially open source systems) to be very problematic
[30-May-2006 13:23:47] <creiht> Take Nagios for example
[30-May-2006 13:23:51] <oubiwann> heh
[30-May-2006 13:23:55] <oubiwann> indeed
[30-May-2006 13:24:26] <creiht> I have found that certain things sound great in theory
[30-May-2006 13:24:36] <creiht> But fall flat on their face in practice
[30-May-2006 13:24:39] <oubiwann> we actually are using twisted python (and I've written other highly-scalable network code with it)
[30-May-2006 13:24:41] <oubiwann> totally
[30-May-2006 13:25:14] <oubiwann> twisted is awesome
[30-May-2006 13:25:32] <creiht> So if you have an installation that is actually monitoring a large number of nodes
[30-May-2006 13:25:38] <creiht> That sounds a lot better to me than
[30-May-2006 13:25:46] <creiht> Well it should
[30-May-2006 13:25:48] <oubiwann> it's used in production for all kinds of highly distributed applications and high concurrency apps
[30-May-2006 13:26:25] <creiht> That still doesn't prevent someone from writing a poorly designed app on top of it
[30-May-2006 13:26:31] <oubiwann> heh
[30-May-2006 13:26:32] <oubiwann> exactly
[30-May-2006 13:26:38] <creiht> You don't have to prove the technologies to me
[30-May-2006 13:26:44] <creiht> I understand those very well
[30-May-2006 13:27:25] <creiht> What is yet to be proved is Zenoss as an app
[30-May-2006 13:27:37] <creiht> Note that I'm not trying to bash it in any way
[30-May-2006 13:27:53] <oubiwann> I understand -- I spent many years as a sys admin ;-)
[30-May-2006 13:27:57] <creiht> Just want to get a good real world understanding of it's scalability
[30-May-2006 13:28:39] <oubiwann> I haven't actually load tested zenoss, so I don't know
[30-May-2006 13:28:48] <creiht> That's cool
[30-May-2006 13:29:05] <oubiwann> if ecn doesn't know, Erik Dahl will
[30-May-2006 13:29:19] <oubiwann> he's the creator, but at a conference this week
[30-May-2006 13:29:24] <creiht> ahhh
[30-May-2006 13:29:31] <creiht> Which conference?
[30-May-2006 13:29:40] <oubiwann> hmmm I forget
[30-May-2006 13:29:44] <creiht> hehe
[30-May-2006 13:29:53] <creiht> So what is your role oubiwann ?
[30-May-2006 13:30:18] <oubiwann> I'm actually a full-time coder now, and have written other monitoring products
[30-May-2006 13:30:31] <creiht> ahhh
[30-May-2006 13:30:38] <oubiwann> these guys got me interested in what they are doing, though
[30-May-2006 13:30:40] <creiht> Which other ones have you worked on?
[30-May-2006 13:30:46] <oubiwann> so I'm going to be contributing to their code base
[30-May-2006 13:31:33] <oubiwann> during the transition from NetSait to Nagios, I did some minor work with their stuff that my company at the time submitted back to the code base
[30-May-2006 13:31:42] <creiht> aggg
[30-May-2006 13:31:45] <creiht> err
[30-May-2006 13:31:47] <creiht> ahhhh
[30-May-2006 13:31:48] <creiht> sorry
[30-May-2006 13:31:49] <creiht>
[30-May-2006 13:31:54] <oubiwann> heh
[30-May-2006 13:32:00] <oubiwann> "the castle arrrrrrrrrgggggggggghh"
[30-May-2006 13:32:36] <oubiwann> since then, I started the pymon project and the CoyoteMonitoring project
[30-May-2006 13:32:41] <oubiwann> CoyMon is netflow
[30-May-2006 13:32:42] <creiht> Ahhhh
[30-May-2006 13:32:44] <creiht> ok
[30-May-2006 13:32:52] <creiht> Are you Dugan (sp?)
[30-May-2006 13:32:57] <oubiwann> Duncan
[30-May-2006 13:33:01] <oubiwann> yup :-)
[30-May-2006 13:33:01] <creiht> Ahh yes
[30-May-2006 13:33:03] <creiht> wow
[30-May-2006 13:33:06] <creiht> small world
[30-May-2006 13:33:07] <creiht>
[30-May-2006 13:33:10] <oubiwann> heh
[30-May-2006 13:34:02] -adytum-bot- New Blog/News Feed: Daily Python-URL! (from the Secret Labs) - [Titus Brown] A bunch o' miscellaneous links
[30-May-2006 13:34:02] <oubiwann> very small
[30-May-2006 13:34:02] <creiht> I had followed some of the pymon stuff for a while
[30-May-2006 13:34:02] <creiht> But development seemed pretty slow
[30-May-2006 13:34:02] <oubiwann> all the work that I've done in the open source community was inspired by my time working at USi as an app engineer and sys admin
[30-May-2006 13:34:02] <creiht> And I saw you at Pycon
[30-May-2006 13:34:02] <oubiwann> yeah, dev is very slow on pymon
[30-May-2006 13:34:03] -adytum-bot- http://www.pythonware.com/daily/index.htm#114897976400232084
[30-May-2006 13:34:24] <creiht> But I was a little too shy to just say... hey you don't know me but...
[30-May-2006 13:34:30] <oubiwann> heh
[30-May-2006 13:34:46] <oubiwann> do you have a pic up on the net?
[30-May-2006 13:34:52] <creiht> hmmm
[30-May-2006 13:35:19] <oubiwann> back to the "small world" bit: the guy that wrote much the amazing stuff at USi
[30-May-2006 13:35:24] <oubiwann> was Erik Dahl :-)
[30-May-2006 13:35:38] <oubiwann> full circle...
[30-May-2006 13:35:40] <creiht> ahhh
[30-May-2006 13:36:00] <ecn> re: scalability
[30-May-2006 13:36:06] <oubiwann> damn, I gotta go -- gonna be late
[30-May-2006 13:36:14] <ecn> Erik is aiming for the 5K device mark right now
[30-May-2006 13:36:19] <creiht> ok
[30-May-2006 13:36:21] <ecn> perf collection can be distributed
[30-May-2006 13:36:37] <ecn> near term goal is to collect 500 OIDs/second per perf collector
[30-May-2006 13:36:57] <creiht> ok
[30-May-2006 13:37:04] <creiht> Right now we poll 25K devices
[30-May-2006 13:37:12] <creiht> But that is spread over several datacenters
[30-May-2006 13:37:24] <creiht> But we are also growing rapidly
[30-May-2006 13:37:43] <creiht> So we can easily spread polling over the different DC's
[30-May-2006 13:38:55] <creiht> Our road map includes the need to monitor 100K devices
[30-May-2006 13:39:15] <ecn> how are you monitoring now?
[30-May-2006 13:40:17] <creiht> OpenNMS does the poling and we have a custom front end for it
[30-May-2006 13:40:45] <creiht> OpenNMS should scale like we want
[30-May-2006 13:41:02] <creiht> But I'm always watching what is going on
[30-May-2006 13:41:15] <creiht> And you guys have peaked my interest
[30-May-2006 13:41:44] <creiht> Right now we are mainly using it for service availability
[30-May-2006 13:41:57] <creiht> But we are starting a new performance monitoring project
[30-May-2006 13:43:46] <creiht> off to a meeting
[30-May-2006 13:55:13] <creiht> All that to say... I like to keep tabs on the monitoring landscape
[30-May-2006 13:57:04] <creiht> oubiwann: If you are still around, his is a picture of me: http://thethiers.com/wp-gallery2.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=2947
[30-May-2006 13:57:04] <adytum-bot> Title: The Thiers (at thethiers.com)
[30-May-2006 13:57:21] <creiht> heh
[30-May-2006 13:57:59] <creiht> It's funny I just realized how few pictures I have of myself on my website
[30-May-2006 14:01:40] <ecn> you're probably the one who works the camera...
[30-May-2006 14:01:47] <ecn> there's almost no home movies of me 8-)
[30-May-2006 14:03:14] <creiht> ecn: Hehe... Yeah pretty much
[30-May-2006 14:04:28] <ecn> I went to visited a friend who was a photographer and doubled the number of picts I had of myself in a week
[30-May-2006 15:17:33] <creiht> okay... So I'm in the middle of trying to install it, and I'm at the point where I run zenbuild
[30-May-2006 15:17:38] <creiht> But I get an import error
[30-May-2006 15:17:42] <creiht> oh wait
[30-May-2006 15:17:57] <creiht> yeah
[30-May-2006 15:18:12] <creiht> I get an Import error saying No module named App.startup
[30-May-2006 15:21:39] <ecn> are you running the latest 20-b release (made 2 days ago)?
[30-May-2006 15:21:50] <creiht> hmmm
[30-May-2006 15:21:52] <ecn> if so, take a look in zenbuild.log
[30-May-2006 15:21:58] <creiht> I don't think so
[30-May-2006 15:22:06] <creiht> I think 19 something
[30-May-2006 15:22:10] <ecn> oh, if not... well, get the latest and bestest
[30-May-2006 15:22:15] <creiht> It was the latest I found on the website ok
[30-May-2006 15:22:18] <creiht> err
[30-May-2006 15:22:19] <ecn> maybe even go straight from svn
[30-May-2006 15:22:32] <creiht> that ok meant to be on the second line
[30-May-2006 15:22:43] <creiht> otherwise that makes me sound a little testy
[30-May-2006 15:22:48] <creiht> ok
[30-May-2006 15:22:50] <creiht> I'll try that
[30-May-2006 15:35:14] <creiht> I'm installing on "OS X" and it can't seem to find the MySQL development stuff
[30-May-2006 15:36:50] <ecn> oh
[30-May-2006 15:37:04] <ecn> hmm... erik is the OS X expert
[30-May-2006 15:37:10] <ecn> that's his regular development platform
[30-May-2006 15:37:29] <creiht> hehe
[30-May-2006 15:37:32] <creiht> ok
[30-May-2006 15:37:34] <ecn> I have no idea where you find stuff for it
[30-May-2006 15:37:37] <creiht> I might have it figured out
[30-May-2006 15:40:51] <creiht> hmmm
[30-May-2006 15:41:07] <creiht> I got passed all of that and I get the same error message
[30-May-2006 15:41:11] <creiht> Import Error
[30-May-2006 15:41:17] <creiht> No Module named App.startup
[30-May-2006 15:41:44] <ecn> ok
[30-May-2006 15:42:01] <ecn> and did you run install.sh?
[30-May-2006 15:42:04] <creiht> yes
[30-May-2006 15:42:16] <ecn> ok, let me check w/the interns here and see if they ever got this
[30-May-2006 15:42:18] <creiht> It starts checking out from svn
[30-May-2006 15:42:19] <ecn> or got past it
[30-May-2006 15:42:23] <creiht> cool
[30-May-2006 15:42:24] <creiht> thanks
[30-May-2006 15:44:48] <ecn> they didn't see it, but the were not able to get it installed, either
[30-May-2006 15:45:05] <ecn> send a message to the mailing list, that way erik will see it
[30-May-2006 15:45:29] <ecn> take a look at zenbuild.log for anything obvious
[30-May-2006 15:45:41] <creiht> hehe
[30-May-2006 15:45:41] <creiht> ok
[30-May-2006 15:45:43] <creiht> will do
[30-May-2006 16:15:04] <creiht> I might have figured my initial problem out
[30-May-2006 16:15:17] <creiht> I had the older version partway installed
[30-May-2006 16:15:31] <ecn> oh, ya
[30-May-2006 16:15:33] <creiht> After I removed it stuff is installing/building now
[30-May-2006 16:15:38] <ecn> remove build and $ZENHOME
[30-May-2006 16:15:43] <creiht> yeah
[30-May-2006 16:15:44] <creiht>
[30-May-2006 16:16:26] <ecn> aka "make clean"
[30-May-2006 16:16:35] <ecn> well, that doesn't remove ZENHOME
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[31-May-2006 10:23:56] <creiht> Good morning
[31-May-2006 10:24:04] <ecn> good morning
[31-May-2006 10:24:14] <creiht> I hope I'm not bothering you guys too much
[31-May-2006 10:24:16] <creiht>
[31-May-2006 10:24:24] <ecn> nope
[31-May-2006 10:24:37] <ecn> if you have a lot of stuff to monitor, you can help a lot
[31-May-2006 10:24:38] <creiht> So I was able to get everything installed and running on my Linux box at home last night
[31-May-2006 10:24:48] <ecn> as it should be 8-)
[31-May-2006 10:25:02] <creiht> Well at this stage I'm just playing around
[31-May-2006 10:25:12] <creiht> I can't promise anything right now
[31-May-2006 10:25:31] <ecn> "playing around" is helpful, too
[31-May-2006 10:25:55] <creiht> An immediate need is to set up a system to monitor some internal servers
[31-May-2006 10:26:00] <creiht> It's only about 20
[31-May-2006 10:26:59] <creiht> If things go well, zenoss will be a candidate for that, and will be a pretty good initial proving ground for us
[31-May-2006 10:27:24] <creiht> Anyway... I ran into a couple of issues last night
[31-May-2006 10:27:43] <creiht> (This is all from the latest svn as of last night)
[31-May-2006 10:27:51] <ecn> ok
[31-May-2006 10:28:21] <creiht> While browsing services, I tried adding a service which caused some weird problems
[31-May-2006 10:28:57] <ecn> yes, I think Erik responded to someone last night that it was a problem
[31-May-2006 10:29:03] <creiht> cool
[31-May-2006 10:29:17] <creiht> I had to delete it through the zope interface and then everything was fine again
[31-May-2006 10:29:51] <creiht> The SNMP detection seemed to work well
[31-May-2006 10:30:40] <ecn> and you were able to collect performance data ?
[31-May-2006 10:30:52] <creiht> Well that part didn't work
[31-May-2006 10:31:00] <ecn> good, that's my part
[31-May-2006 10:31:03] <ecn> 8-)
[31-May-2006 10:31:04] <creiht> But I was only collecting from one machine
[31-May-2006 10:31:05] <creiht> hehe
[31-May-2006 10:31:22] <creiht> And I'm not sure if the snmp agent was set up correctly on it
[31-May-2006 10:31:39] <ecn> hmm... well, if it did SNMP detection...
[31-May-2006 10:31:52] <creiht> Yeah it detected everything... CPU, etc.
[31-May-2006 10:31:58] <ecn> should have collected some stats
[31-May-2006 10:32:08] <creiht> But I got a lot of events saying that it couldn't pull the stats
[31-May-2006 10:32:19] <ecn> oh
[31-May-2006 10:32:36] <ecn> what type of box was it?
[31-May-2006 10:32:44] <creiht> I don't have the machine with me right now, and I don't remember the exact message
[31-May-2006 10:32:53] <creiht> It was a ASUS Laptop
[31-May-2006 10:32:58] <creiht> With Ubuntu Dapper
[31-May-2006 10:33:01] <ecn> ok
[31-May-2006 10:33:25] <ecn> was the device sitting in /Discovered or /Servers/Linux ?
[31-May-2006 10:33:54] <creiht> It was initially in /Discovered and then I moved it to /Servers/Linux
[31-May-2006 10:34:44] <creiht> Are those containers just for organization, or do they have more of a purpose than that?
[31-May-2006 10:35:09] <ecn> they define the templates to be used
[31-May-2006 10:35:14] <ecn> for SNMP collection
[31-May-2006 10:35:31] <creiht> ahhh
[31-May-2006 10:35:34] <creiht> interesting
[31-May-2006 10:35:39] <ecn> defines what MIBs are available
[31-May-2006 10:35:46] <ecn> though, they can be customized
[31-May-2006 10:35:54] <ecn> and they are inherited down the line
[31-May-2006 10:36:06] <creiht> gotcha
[31-May-2006 10:36:13] <ecn> so, /Servers/Linux/Dell gets everything /Servers and /Servers/Linux gets
[31-May-2006 10:36:52] <ecn> brb
[31-May-2006 10:36:56] <creiht> ok
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[31-May-2006 10:40:37] <ecn> back
[31-May-2006 10:45:27] <creiht> For service monitoring (for example http)... Is that supposed to automatically detected?
[31-May-2006 10:45:49] <ecn> to be honest, I don't know... but I think so
[31-May-2006 10:45:53] <creiht> hehe
[31-May-2006 10:46:16] <ecn> I've not worked on the discovery part (yet)
[31-May-2006 10:46:41] <creiht> Do you know if there is a way to assign a service to be monitored on a device?
[31-May-2006 10:47:17] <ecn> what's the port number?
[31-May-2006 10:47:23] <ecn> that is, is it < 1024?
[31-May-2006 10:47:24] <creiht> http, port 80
[31-May-2006 10:47:28] <ecn> ok
[31-May-2006 10:48:03] <ecn> I think it *is* supposed to be picked up during discovery, but I'll have to ask Erik and he's not around
[31-May-2006 10:48:10] <creiht> hehe
[31-May-2006 10:48:17] <creiht> When's the conference over?
[31-May-2006 10:48:27] <ecn> of course, I could look through the source and find it... eventually
[31-May-2006 10:48:33] <ecn> today
[31-May-2006 10:48:36] <creiht> cool
[31-May-2006 10:48:40] <creiht> Don't worry about it
[31-May-2006 10:48:46] <creiht> I'll play with it some more today
[31-May-2006 16:22:45] *** ecn has left #zenoss
[31-May-2006 16:23:06] <oubiwann> creiht : you still there?
[31-May-2006 16:24:49] <creiht> oubiwann: Yes
[31-May-2006 16:25:17] <oubiwann> hey, I saw your pic -- did we talk at pycon this year? you look really familiar...
[31-May-2006 16:25:33] <creiht> We did a little bit
[31-May-2006 16:25:35] <oubiwann> and very cute baby, btw ;-)
[31-May-2006 16:25:38] <creiht> hehe
[31-May-2006 16:25:39] <oubiwann> yeah, I thought so
[31-May-2006 16:25:39] <creiht> Thanks
[31-May-2006 16:25:51] <creiht> I think it would have been after the Django presentation
[31-May-2006 16:25:57] <creiht> I happened to sit in front of you
[31-May-2006 16:26:42] <creiht> And Ted Leung was close by as well
[31-May-2006 16:27:22] <creiht> I think we talked about how we wish it would have been less marketing and a little more hands on
[31-May-2006 16:27:31] <oubiwann> heh
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[31-May-2006 16:28:11] <creiht> heh
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[31-May-2006 16:29:25] <creiht> ugh
[31-May-2006 16:29:38] <oubiwann> looks like you're having some fun ;-)
[31-May-2006 16:30:25] <creiht> My IRC client keeps doing weird things
[31-May-2006 16:31:32] <oubiwann> I missed pycon 2005, but 2004 was awesome. It was really technical and lots of intense energy
[31-May-2006 16:31:44] <oubiwann> 2006 was a lot of fun, but was much more laid back and social
[31-May-2006 16:32:00] <oubiwann> which is fun too... I just missed some of that intensity from 2004
[31-May-2006 16:38:54] <creiht> Yeah I was hoping that it would have been a bit more technical
[31-May-2006 16:39:10] <creiht> I did enjoy it though
[31-May-2006 16:39:17] <creiht> And will probably go next year
[31-May-2006 16:39:17] <oubiwann> yeah, me too :-)
[31-May-2006 16:39:21] <oubiwann> ditto
[31-May-2006 16:39:53] <creiht> I really enjoyed the IronPython talks... they were pretty technical
[31-May-2006 16:40:18] <oubiwann> I missed those -- but the PyPy stuff was insanely cool
[31-May-2006 16:40:49] <creiht> heh... Yeah I missed those, but heard they went well
[31-May-2006 16:41:12] <oubiwann> 2004 was very twistful
[31-May-2006 16:41:21] <oubiwann> I hope 2007 has more twisted stuff
[31-May-2006 16:43:29] <creiht> Yeah I heard Glyph was in/near Dallas but was unable to attend due to other obligations
[31-May-2006 16:43:51] <oubiwann> yeah, he was working on a super-secret mission with the gaming industry
[31-May-2006 16:44:00] <creiht> ahhh
[31-May-2006 16:44:07] <creiht> Is it still super-secret?
[31-May-2006 16:44:09] <creiht>
[31-May-2006 16:44:20] <oubiwann> he still hasn't spilled all the beans -- yeah :-)
[31-May-2006 16:44:27] <creiht> ahh
[31-May-2006 16:44:29] <oubiwann> but he did blog about a teaser a while back
[31-May-2006 16:44:41] <oubiwann> a game device with the divmod logo on it :-)
[31-May-2006 16:44:52] <creiht> wow
[31-May-2006 16:44:54] <oubiwann> uh, there was an image with the blog post
[31-May-2006 16:44:55] <creiht> hmmm
[31-May-2006 16:45:01] <oubiwann> yeah, very interesting
[31-May-2006 16:46:35] <oubiwann> oh wow, twisted 2.4 improved bulk ssh xfers by ~5x
[31-May-2006 16:47:35] <creiht> hmmm
[31-May-2006 16:47:44] <creiht> Where is his blog located?
[31-May-2006 16:48:53] <oubiwann> http://glyf.livejournal.com/
[31-May-2006 16:48:53] <adytum-bot> Title: Handwriting on the Sky (at glyf.livejournal.com)
[31-May-2006 16:48:53] <creiht> ahhh yes
[31-May-2006 16:48:53] <creiht> thanks
[31-May-2006 16:48:53] <oubiwann> np ;-)\
[31-May-2006 16:50:16] <oubiwann> heh, I'm reading though the changes in twisted 2.4 (at http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedProject)
[31-May-2006 16:50:16] <adytum-bot> Title: TwistedProject - Twisted - Trac (at twistedmatrix.com)
[31-May-2006 16:50:16] <oubiwann> and the nex feature in twisted.web is the one that I added :-)
[31-May-2006 16:50:18] <oubiwann> that's a good feeling
[31-May-2006 16:50:24] * creiht grins
[31-May-2006 16:53:20] <oubiwann> here's that blog entry:
[31-May-2006 16:53:27] <oubiwann> http://glyf.livejournal.com/53775.html
[31-May-2006 16:53:27] <adytum-bot> Title: glyf: (Unfortunately Brief) Austin Retrospective (at glyf.livejournal.com)
[31-May-2006 16:53:33] <creiht> ahhh cool
[31-May-2006 16:53:34] <creiht> thanks
[31-May-2006 16:54:22] <oubiwann> man, the latest snmp is taking FOREVER to build on my freebsd router
[31-May-2006 16:54:27] <oubiwann> poor old 233 machine...
[31-May-2006 16:55:15] <creiht> heh
[31-May-2006 16:55:44] <oubiwann> as soon as it finishes, I'll be building and running zenoss on my mac (10.3.9)
[31-May-2006 16:55:54] <oubiwann> you ended up getting yours running, correct?
[31-May-2006 16:56:09] <creiht> Almost
[31-May-2006 16:56:25] <creiht> I have a weird dev environment right now
[31-May-2006 16:56:32] <oubiwann> ah
[31-May-2006 16:56:44] <creiht> I think it is a problem with it trying to build rrd
[31-May-2006 16:57:06] <oubiwann> was it the python bindings for rrd?
[31-May-2006 16:57:18] <creiht> It builds rrdtools with the assuming that I am using the Framework version of Python
[31-May-2006 16:57:22] <oubiwann> I've had troubles with that in the past... not even sure if they're actually installed
[31-May-2006 16:57:43] <creiht> But I'm using a DarwinPorts build of Python
[31-May-2006 16:57:51] <creiht> And so it is causing problems
[31-May-2006 16:57:54] <oubiwann> ah, yes
[31-May-2006 16:58:22] <creiht> I was able to install it on my Linux laptop at home fairly easily
[31-May-2006 16:59:40] <creiht> I'm about to blow everything away and upgrade to Tiger, but have been waiting to get done with a current project
[31-May-2006 17:00:05] <oubiwann> I've been meaning to put a darwin ports version of python on my laptop, so I'll add that to my task list
[31-May-2006 17:00:53] <creiht> Man Twisted has progressed since the last time I looked at it
[31-May-2006 17:01:28] <oubiwann> yeah, it's getting lots of enthusiastic work by the core developers and additional contributors
[31-May-2006 17:01:49] <oubiwann> there are universities that use it in their CS programs now, too
[31-May-2006 17:01:57] <creiht> That's cool
[31-May-2006 17:02:31] <creiht> And it looks like the docs have gotten a bit better
[31-May-2006 17:02:51] <oubiwann> yeah, we freaked on irc last year when some guy came on the channel asking questions, and it turned out he was a prof at Stanford or something
[31-May-2006 17:03:01] <creiht> heh
[31-May-2006 17:03:03] <oubiwann> yeah, docs have gotten a LOT of work in the last two years
[31-May-2006 17:03:57] <creiht> Ahh the intro to deffered's doc has been much needed
[31-May-2006 17:04:03] <creiht> I'm going to have to play with it again
[31-May-2006 17:04:05] <oubiwann> totally
[31-May-2006 17:04:22] <oubiwann> that did a great job with a whole new series of docs for deferreds
[31-May-2006 17:04:30] <oubiwann> s/that/they/
[31-May-2006 17:05:50] <creiht> I always had a difficult time with the learning curve... The new docs should help a lot
[31-May-2006 17:06:32] <oubiwann> dude, any questions you've got about twisted, just ask -- I love the stuff, and I tend to be much more friendly than the average twisted dev ;-)
[31-May-2006 17:06:41] <oubiwann> I teach people twisted basics all the time
[31-May-2006 17:06:43] <oubiwann> love it
[31-May-2006 17:06:47] <creiht> Cool... Thanks
[31-May-2006 17:06:50] <oubiwann> you bet :-)
[31-May-2006 17:07:06] <oubiwann> you'd be amazed how quickly you can get up to speed
[31-May-2006 17:07:25] <oubiwann> the docs try to be really comprehensive -- which is good, but also a little overwhelming at first
[31-May-2006 17:08:14] <oubiwann> there are a couple small sample/experimental scripts you can write that really hammer home the nuts and bolts of async coding with twisted
[31-May-2006 17:11:12] <creiht> Wow
[31-May-2006 17:11:32] <creiht> Deferreds make so much more sense now
[31-May-2006 17:11:36] <oubiwann> nice!
[31-May-2006 17:11:56] <oubiwann> that's a great feeling :-)
[31-May-2006 17:17:41] <creiht> ok... so a really off the wall question
[31-May-2006 17:18:10] <creiht> Is there something in the twisted world for messaging (something like JMS in the Java world)?
[31-May-2006 17:19:57] <oubiwann> messaging...
[31-May-2006 17:20:10] <oubiwann> I need more context ;-)
[31-May-2006 17:20:35] <oubiwann> (googling JMS)
[31-May-2006 17:21:11] <oubiwann> yeah
[31-May-2006 17:21:21] <oubiwann> that's twisted.spread (perspective broker)
[31-May-2006 17:21:24] <oubiwann> more or less
[31-May-2006 17:21:29] <creiht> ahhh
[31-May-2006 17:21:54] <oubiwann> pb is teh shit
[31-May-2006 17:22:17] <creiht> Yes... That looks very similar
[31-May-2006 17:22:19] <oubiwann> I've had to do a lot of work with XML-RPC and JSON-RPC, and *man* did that make me appreciate pb
[31-May-2006 17:22:33] <oubiwann> it's very secure
[31-May-2006 17:22:50] <oubiwann> though coding for the security can be a pain (due to the steps you have to take)
[31-May-2006 17:23:10] <oubiwann> but it's really worth it, and not so abstract, once you get used to it
[31-May-2006 17:24:05] <creiht> Interesting
[31-May-2006 17:24:53] <oubiwann> there's also Java code for perspective broker, so it can be used by Java apps
[31-May-2006 17:25:02] <creiht> Hmmm
[31-May-2006 17:25:04] <creiht> That is cool
[31-May-2006 17:25:15] <oubiwann> yeah, that really helps sell it
[31-May-2006 17:25:48] <oubiwann> Erik and I have started talking about using perspective broker in zenoss
[31-May-2006 17:26:07] <oubiwann> for a planned os-agnostic agent
[31-May-2006 17:48:53] *** ecn has joined #zenoss
[31-May-2006 17:50:15] <oubiwann> ecn: hey man :-)
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[31-May-2006 21:30:24] <ecn> hi
[31-May-2006 21:30:42] <ecn> sorry.. I was out getting ice cream w/the kids
[31-May-2006 22:06:00] <oubiwann> heh
[31-May-2006 22:06:05] <oubiwann> no prob :-)
[31-May-2006 22:14:37] <oubiwann> /whois ecn
[31-May-2006 22:14:40] <oubiwann> heh
[31-May-2006 22:14:55] <oubiwann> I put a space in there by accident
[31-May-2006 22:15:10] <oubiwann> trying to see if your on any interesting channels I might want to check out :-)
[31-May-2006 22:15:23] <oubiwann> nope, just this one :-)
[31-May-2006 22:15:38] <oubiwann> can't go wrong with #zenoss, though
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[27-May-2006 13:32:04] <oubiwann> gonna test the logging of the bot now...
[27-May-2006 13:34:11] <oubiwann> sweet, logs are up
[27-May-2006 13:34:13] <oubiwann> http://www2.adytum.us/adytum-irclogs/%23zenoss%40freenode.log
[27-May-2006 13:38:42] <oubiwann> so, anyway, about your email -- yeah, Erik wants me to start working on zenstatus
[27-May-2006 13:39:16] <oubiwann> I'm the author of pymon, which is essentially a status checker
[27-May-2006 13:39:24] <oubiwann> 100% twistsed, of course :-)
[27-May-2006 13:46:17] <ecn> of course
[27-May-2006 13:46:29] <ecn> twisted is all good ;-)
[27-May-2006 13:46:52] <ecn> help me make fun of Erik for using nasty threads
[27-May-2006 14:16:35] <oubiwann> oh, indeed
[27-May-2006 14:17:16] <oubiwann> in fact, I was looking over the current ZenStatus, and I'm going to suggest redoing all of it :-)
[27-May-2006 14:18:21] <oubiwann> I'm going to be heading out for the day within an hour or so...
[27-May-2006 14:18:59] <oubiwann> but before I go, I wanted to bring up some admin stuff in case you know the answers or can actually do it :-)
[27-May-2006 14:19:58] <oubiwann> I work in branches -- what do I need to do to get write-access to the repos?
[27-May-2006 14:20:33] <oubiwann> I'd also like to start making comments on the wiki as well as documenting my stuff there... do you guys have auth for that in Apache?
[27-May-2006 14:20:57] <oubiwann> hmmm... I think those are the only q's I have for now :-)
[27-May-2006 14:41:46] <oubiwann> okay, I'm heading out now -- catch ya later :-)
[27-May-2006 15:39:25] <ecn> Erik will have to provide a login
[27-May-2006 15:39:30] <ecn> see email
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[30-May-2006 12:16:40] <creiht> Howdy
[30-May-2006 12:16:55] <oubiwann> creiht : hey
[30-May-2006 12:17:05] <creiht> So did I guess correctly and is this channel for Zenoss?
[30-May-2006 12:17:14] <oubiwann> indeed you did :-)
[30-May-2006 12:17:17] <creiht> hehe
[30-May-2006 12:17:40] <oubiwann> it's unofficial as yet, but well be posting the information on the site probably this month
[30-May-2006 12:17:47] <creiht> ahhh
[30-May-2006 12:17:48] <creiht> cool
[30-May-2006 12:17:57] <creiht> Well someone pointed me to your site today
[30-May-2006 12:18:04] <creiht> And I'm interested
[30-May-2006 12:18:04] <oubiwann> sweet!
[30-May-2006 12:18:12] <oubiwann> who told you about us
[30-May-2006 12:18:22] <creiht> A co-worker
[30-May-2006 12:18:33] <oubiwann> awesome
[30-May-2006 12:19:21] <creiht> I'm waiting for everything to build on my laptop right now
[30-May-2006 12:19:29] <creiht> So I thought I would see if anyone was here
[30-May-2006 12:19:50] <creiht> I've read all the marketing stuff on the website
[30-May-2006 12:21:08] <creiht> Wanted to get a better feel for the community
[30-May-2006 12:21:12] <creiht> doh
[30-May-2006 12:21:15] <creiht> lunch time
[30-May-2006 12:21:15] <creiht> bbl
[30-May-2006 12:28:24] <oubiwann> cool
[30-May-2006 12:28:53] <oubiwann> I've got an appointment this morning, but I'll be back in a couple hours (I'm in CO)
[30-May-2006 12:57:30] <ecn> i gotta find out a way to get this IM client to tell me when stuff happens in here
[30-May-2006 12:57:39] <oubiwann> heh
[30-May-2006 12:58:08] <oubiwann> I use bitchx (terminal) and have the visual "bell" set :-)
[30-May-2006 12:58:30] <oubiwann> needless to say, it's also given me epilepsy
[30-May-2006 12:58:36] <ecn> ya, except i have other clients who are using other IM systems
[30-May-2006 13:01:50] <ecn> just talked to Erik (he's at a conference today & tomorrow)
[30-May-2006 13:02:07] <ecn> he says to just work from the trunk until he gets you set up
[30-May-2006 13:02:10] <oubiwann> how's the conf goin?
[30-May-2006 13:02:16] <oubiwann> cool -- sounds good
[30-May-2006 13:02:22] <ecn> good, I guess... not much happening so far
[30-May-2006 13:03:56] <oubiwann> I actually created a branch already (working copy), so when I get svn access, the commit will push the new branch up to the server
[30-May-2006 13:04:01] <oubiwann> it's just a copy of trunk
[30-May-2006 13:04:05] <ecn> ok
[30-May-2006 13:13:05] <creiht> So here's the big question
[30-May-2006 13:13:25] <creiht> How scalable is the monitoring?
[30-May-2006 13:13:48] <creiht> Can I monitor 50K nodes? 100k nodes?
[30-May-2006 13:19:31] <oubiwann> I'm actually new to it myself, just learning it now
[30-May-2006 13:19:32] <oubiwann> but
[30-May-2006 13:20:41] <oubiwann> for things like ssh checks, the bottleneck is the network, not the software
[30-May-2006 13:21:32] <oubiwann> 100,000 bits of data updates coming in every second is common place for
[30-May-2006 13:21:38] <oubiwann> "enterprise" apps
[30-May-2006 13:22:02] <oubiwann> the software the Zenoss is built with is proven in this arena
[30-May-2006 13:22:40] <oubiwann> that's not to say that you won'y notice the load ;-)
[30-May-2006 13:22:43] <creiht> heh
[30-May-2006 13:23:23] <oubiwann> I've gotta jet for the appointment I mentioned, but ecn knows the system much better than I do
[30-May-2006 13:23:32] <oubiwann> so he should have some good info for you
[30-May-2006 13:23:42] <creiht> I have found Scaling in monitoring systems (especially open source systems) to be very problematic
[30-May-2006 13:23:47] <creiht> Take Nagios for example
[30-May-2006 13:23:51] <oubiwann> heh
[30-May-2006 13:23:55] <oubiwann> indeed
[30-May-2006 13:24:26] <creiht> I have found that certain things sound great in theory
[30-May-2006 13:24:36] <creiht> But fall flat on their face in practice
[30-May-2006 13:24:39] <oubiwann> we actually are using twisted python (and I've written other highly-scalable network code with it)
[30-May-2006 13:24:41] <oubiwann> totally
[30-May-2006 13:25:14] <oubiwann> twisted is awesome
[30-May-2006 13:25:32] <creiht> So if you have an installation that is actually monitoring a large number of nodes
[30-May-2006 13:25:38] <creiht> That sounds a lot better to me than
[30-May-2006 13:25:46] <creiht> Well it should
[30-May-2006 13:25:48] <oubiwann> it's used in production for all kinds of highly distributed applications and high concurrency apps
[30-May-2006 13:26:25] <creiht> That still doesn't prevent someone from writing a poorly designed app on top of it
[30-May-2006 13:26:31] <oubiwann> heh
[30-May-2006 13:26:32] <oubiwann> exactly
[30-May-2006 13:26:38] <creiht> You don't have to prove the technologies to me
[30-May-2006 13:26:44] <creiht> I understand those very well
[30-May-2006 13:27:25] <creiht> What is yet to be proved is Zenoss as an app
[30-May-2006 13:27:37] <creiht> Note that I'm not trying to bash it in any way
[30-May-2006 13:27:53] <oubiwann> I understand -- I spent many years as a sys admin ;-)
[30-May-2006 13:27:57] <creiht> Just want to get a good real world understanding of it's scalability
[30-May-2006 13:28:39] <oubiwann> I haven't actually load tested zenoss, so I don't know
[30-May-2006 13:28:48] <creiht> That's cool
[30-May-2006 13:29:05] <oubiwann> if ecn doesn't know, Erik Dahl will
[30-May-2006 13:29:19] <oubiwann> he's the creator, but at a conference this week
[30-May-2006 13:29:24] <creiht> ahhh
[30-May-2006 13:29:31] <creiht> Which conference?
[30-May-2006 13:29:40] <oubiwann> hmmm I forget
[30-May-2006 13:29:44] <creiht> hehe
[30-May-2006 13:29:53] <creiht> So what is your role oubiwann ?
[30-May-2006 13:30:18] <oubiwann> I'm actually a full-time coder now, and have written other monitoring products
[30-May-2006 13:30:31] <creiht> ahhh
[30-May-2006 13:30:38] <oubiwann> these guys got me interested in what they are doing, though
[30-May-2006 13:30:40] <creiht> Which other ones have you worked on?
[30-May-2006 13:30:46] <oubiwann> so I'm going to be contributing to their code base
[30-May-2006 13:31:33] <oubiwann> during the transition from NetSait to Nagios, I did some minor work with their stuff that my company at the time submitted back to the code base
[30-May-2006 13:31:42] <creiht> aggg
[30-May-2006 13:31:45] <creiht> err
[30-May-2006 13:31:47] <creiht> ahhhh
[30-May-2006 13:31:48] <creiht> sorry
[30-May-2006 13:31:49] <creiht>
[30-May-2006 13:31:54] <oubiwann> heh
[30-May-2006 13:32:00] <oubiwann> "the castle arrrrrrrrrgggggggggghh"
[30-May-2006 13:32:36] <oubiwann> since then, I started the pymon project and the CoyoteMonitoring project
[30-May-2006 13:32:41] <oubiwann> CoyMon is netflow
[30-May-2006 13:32:42] <creiht> Ahhhh
[30-May-2006 13:32:44] <creiht> ok
[30-May-2006 13:32:52] <creiht> Are you Dugan (sp?)
[30-May-2006 13:32:57] <oubiwann> Duncan
[30-May-2006 13:33:01] <oubiwann> yup :-)
[30-May-2006 13:33:01] <creiht> Ahh yes
[30-May-2006 13:33:03] <creiht> wow
[30-May-2006 13:33:06] <creiht> small world
[30-May-2006 13:33:07] <creiht>
[30-May-2006 13:33:10] <oubiwann> heh
[30-May-2006 13:34:02] -adytum-bot- New Blog/News Feed: Daily Python-URL! (from the Secret Labs) - [Titus Brown] A bunch o' miscellaneous links
[30-May-2006 13:34:02] <oubiwann> very small
[30-May-2006 13:34:02] <creiht> I had followed some of the pymon stuff for a while
[30-May-2006 13:34:02] <creiht> But development seemed pretty slow
[30-May-2006 13:34:02] <oubiwann> all the work that I've done in the open source community was inspired by my time working at USi as an app engineer and sys admin
[30-May-2006 13:34:02] <creiht> And I saw you at Pycon
[30-May-2006 13:34:02] <oubiwann> yeah, dev is very slow on pymon
[30-May-2006 13:34:03] -adytum-bot- http://www.pythonware.com/daily/index.htm#114897976400232084
[30-May-2006 13:34:24] <creiht> But I was a little too shy to just say... hey you don't know me but...
[30-May-2006 13:34:30] <oubiwann> heh
[30-May-2006 13:34:46] <oubiwann> do you have a pic up on the net?
[30-May-2006 13:34:52] <creiht> hmmm
[30-May-2006 13:35:19] <oubiwann> back to the "small world" bit: the guy that wrote much the amazing stuff at USi
[30-May-2006 13:35:24] <oubiwann> was Erik Dahl :-)
[30-May-2006 13:35:38] <oubiwann> full circle...
[30-May-2006 13:35:40] <creiht> ahhh
[30-May-2006 13:36:00] <ecn> re: scalability
[30-May-2006 13:36:06] <oubiwann> damn, I gotta go -- gonna be late
[30-May-2006 13:36:14] <ecn> Erik is aiming for the 5K device mark right now
[30-May-2006 13:36:19] <creiht> ok
[30-May-2006 13:36:21] <ecn> perf collection can be distributed
[30-May-2006 13:36:37] <ecn> near term goal is to collect 500 OIDs/second per perf collector
[30-May-2006 13:36:57] <creiht> ok
[30-May-2006 13:37:04] <creiht> Right now we poll 25K devices
[30-May-2006 13:37:12] <creiht> But that is spread over several datacenters
[30-May-2006 13:37:24] <creiht> But we are also growing rapidly
[30-May-2006 13:37:43] <creiht> So we can easily spread polling over the different DC's
[30-May-2006 13:38:55] <creiht> Our road map includes the need to monitor 100K devices
[30-May-2006 13:39:15] <ecn> how are you monitoring now?
[30-May-2006 13:40:17] <creiht> OpenNMS does the poling and we have a custom front end for it
[30-May-2006 13:40:45] <creiht> OpenNMS should scale like we want
[30-May-2006 13:41:02] <creiht> But I'm always watching what is going on
[30-May-2006 13:41:15] <creiht> And you guys have peaked my interest
[30-May-2006 13:41:44] <creiht> Right now we are mainly using it for service availability
[30-May-2006 13:41:57] <creiht> But we are starting a new performance monitoring project
[30-May-2006 13:43:46] <creiht> off to a meeting
[30-May-2006 13:55:13] <creiht> All that to say... I like to keep tabs on the monitoring landscape
[30-May-2006 13:57:04] <creiht> oubiwann: If you are still around, his is a picture of me: http://thethiers.com/wp-gallery2.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=2947
[30-May-2006 13:57:04] <adytum-bot> Title: The Thiers (at thethiers.com)
[30-May-2006 13:57:21] <creiht> heh
[30-May-2006 13:57:59] <creiht> It's funny I just realized how few pictures I have of myself on my website
[30-May-2006 14:01:40] <ecn> you're probably the one who works the camera...
[30-May-2006 14:01:47] <ecn> there's almost no home movies of me 8-)
[30-May-2006 14:03:14] <creiht> ecn: Hehe... Yeah pretty much
[30-May-2006 14:04:28] <ecn> I went to visited a friend who was a photographer and doubled the number of picts I had of myself in a week
[30-May-2006 15:17:33] <creiht> okay... So I'm in the middle of trying to install it, and I'm at the point where I run zenbuild
[30-May-2006 15:17:38] <creiht> But I get an import error
[30-May-2006 15:17:42] <creiht> oh wait
[30-May-2006 15:17:57] <creiht> yeah
[30-May-2006 15:18:12] <creiht> I get an Import error saying No module named App.startup
[30-May-2006 15:21:39] <ecn> are you running the latest 20-b release (made 2 days ago)?
[30-May-2006 15:21:50] <creiht> hmmm
[30-May-2006 15:21:52] <ecn> if so, take a look in zenbuild.log
[30-May-2006 15:21:58] <creiht> I don't think so
[30-May-2006 15:22:06] <creiht> I think 19 something
[30-May-2006 15:22:10] <ecn> oh, if not... well, get the latest and bestest
[30-May-2006 15:22:15] <creiht> It was the latest I found on the website ok
[30-May-2006 15:22:18] <creiht> err
[30-May-2006 15:22:19] <ecn> maybe even go straight from svn
[30-May-2006 15:22:32] <creiht> that ok meant to be on the second line
[30-May-2006 15:22:43] <creiht> otherwise that makes me sound a little testy
[30-May-2006 15:22:48] <creiht> ok
[30-May-2006 15:22:50] <creiht> I'll try that
[30-May-2006 15:35:14] <creiht> I'm installing on "OS X" and it can't seem to find the MySQL development stuff
[30-May-2006 15:36:50] <ecn> oh
[30-May-2006 15:37:04] <ecn> hmm... erik is the OS X expert
[30-May-2006 15:37:10] <ecn> that's his regular development platform
[30-May-2006 15:37:29] <creiht> hehe
[30-May-2006 15:37:32] <creiht> ok
[30-May-2006 15:37:34] <ecn> I have no idea where you find stuff for it
[30-May-2006 15:37:37] <creiht> I might have it figured out
[30-May-2006 15:40:51] <creiht> hmmm
[30-May-2006 15:41:07] <creiht> I got passed all of that and I get the same error message
[30-May-2006 15:41:11] <creiht> Import Error
[30-May-2006 15:41:17] <creiht> No Module named App.startup
[30-May-2006 15:41:44] <ecn> ok
[30-May-2006 15:42:01] <ecn> and did you run install.sh?
[30-May-2006 15:42:04] <creiht> yes
[30-May-2006 15:42:16] <ecn> ok, let me check w/the interns here and see if they ever got this
[30-May-2006 15:42:18] <creiht> It starts checking out from svn
[30-May-2006 15:42:19] <ecn> or got past it
[30-May-2006 15:42:23] <creiht> cool
[30-May-2006 15:42:24] <creiht> thanks
[30-May-2006 15:44:48] <ecn> they didn't see it, but the were not able to get it installed, either
[30-May-2006 15:45:05] <ecn> send a message to the mailing list, that way erik will see it
[30-May-2006 15:45:29] <ecn> take a look at zenbuild.log for anything obvious
[30-May-2006 15:45:41] <creiht> hehe
[30-May-2006 15:45:41] <creiht> ok
[30-May-2006 15:45:43] <creiht> will do
[30-May-2006 16:15:04] <creiht> I might have figured my initial problem out
[30-May-2006 16:15:17] <creiht> I had the older version partway installed
[30-May-2006 16:15:31] <ecn> oh, ya
[30-May-2006 16:15:33] <creiht> After I removed it stuff is installing/building now
[30-May-2006 16:15:38] <ecn> remove build and $ZENHOME
[30-May-2006 16:15:43] <creiht> yeah
[30-May-2006 16:15:44] <creiht>
[30-May-2006 16:16:26] <ecn> aka "make clean"
[30-May-2006 16:16:35] <ecn> well, that doesn't remove ZENHOME
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[31-May-2006 10:23:56] <creiht> Good morning
[31-May-2006 10:24:04] <ecn> good morning
[31-May-2006 10:24:14] <creiht> I hope I'm not bothering you guys too much
[31-May-2006 10:24:16] <creiht>
[31-May-2006 10:24:24] <ecn> nope
[31-May-2006 10:24:37] <ecn> if you have a lot of stuff to monitor, you can help a lot
[31-May-2006 10:24:38] <creiht> So I was able to get everything installed and running on my Linux box at home last night
[31-May-2006 10:24:48] <ecn> as it should be 8-)
[31-May-2006 10:25:02] <creiht> Well at this stage I'm just playing around
[31-May-2006 10:25:12] <creiht> I can't promise anything right now
[31-May-2006 10:25:31] <ecn> "playing around" is helpful, too
[31-May-2006 10:25:55] <creiht> An immediate need is to set up a system to monitor some internal servers
[31-May-2006 10:26:00] <creiht> It's only about 20
[31-May-2006 10:26:59] <creiht> If things go well, zenoss will be a candidate for that, and will be a pretty good initial proving ground for us
[31-May-2006 10:27:24] <creiht> Anyway... I ran into a couple of issues last night
[31-May-2006 10:27:43] <creiht> (This is all from the latest svn as of last night)
[31-May-2006 10:27:51] <ecn> ok
[31-May-2006 10:28:21] <creiht> While browsing services, I tried adding a service which caused some weird problems
[31-May-2006 10:28:57] <ecn> yes, I think Erik responded to someone last night that it was a problem
[31-May-2006 10:29:03] <creiht> cool
[31-May-2006 10:29:17] <creiht> I had to delete it through the zope interface and then everything was fine again
[31-May-2006 10:29:51] <creiht> The SNMP detection seemed to work well
[31-May-2006 10:30:40] <ecn> and you were able to collect performance data ?
[31-May-2006 10:30:52] <creiht> Well that part didn't work
[31-May-2006 10:31:00] <ecn> good, that's my part
[31-May-2006 10:31:03] <ecn> 8-)
[31-May-2006 10:31:04] <creiht> But I was only collecting from one machine
[31-May-2006 10:31:05] <creiht> hehe
[31-May-2006 10:31:22] <creiht> And I'm not sure if the snmp agent was set up correctly on it
[31-May-2006 10:31:39] <ecn> hmm... well, if it did SNMP detection...
[31-May-2006 10:31:52] <creiht> Yeah it detected everything... CPU, etc.
[31-May-2006 10:31:58] <ecn> should have collected some stats
[31-May-2006 10:32:08] <creiht> But I got a lot of events saying that it couldn't pull the stats
[31-May-2006 10:32:19] <ecn> oh
[31-May-2006 10:32:36] <ecn> what type of box was it?
[31-May-2006 10:32:44] <creiht> I don't have the machine with me right now, and I don't remember the exact message
[31-May-2006 10:32:53] <creiht> It was a ASUS Laptop
[31-May-2006 10:32:58] <creiht> With Ubuntu Dapper
[31-May-2006 10:33:01] <ecn> ok
[31-May-2006 10:33:25] <ecn> was the device sitting in /Discovered or /Servers/Linux ?
[31-May-2006 10:33:54] <creiht> It was initially in /Discovered and then I moved it to /Servers/Linux
[31-May-2006 10:34:44] <creiht> Are those containers just for organization, or do they have more of a purpose than that?
[31-May-2006 10:35:09] <ecn> they define the templates to be used
[31-May-2006 10:35:14] <ecn> for SNMP collection
[31-May-2006 10:35:31] <creiht> ahhh
[31-May-2006 10:35:34] <creiht> interesting
[31-May-2006 10:35:39] <ecn> defines what MIBs are available
[31-May-2006 10:35:46] <ecn> though, they can be customized
[31-May-2006 10:35:54] <ecn> and they are inherited down the line
[31-May-2006 10:36:06] <creiht> gotcha
[31-May-2006 10:36:13] <ecn> so, /Servers/Linux/Dell gets everything /Servers and /Servers/Linux gets
[31-May-2006 10:36:52] <ecn> brb
[31-May-2006 10:36:56] <creiht> ok
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[31-May-2006 10:40:37] <ecn> back
[31-May-2006 10:45:27] <creiht> For service monitoring (for example http)... Is that supposed to automatically detected?
[31-May-2006 10:45:49] <ecn> to be honest, I don't know... but I think so
[31-May-2006 10:45:53] <creiht> hehe
[31-May-2006 10:46:16] <ecn> I've not worked on the discovery part (yet)
[31-May-2006 10:46:41] <creiht> Do you know if there is a way to assign a service to be monitored on a device?
[31-May-2006 10:47:17] <ecn> what's the port number?
[31-May-2006 10:47:23] <ecn> that is, is it < 1024?
[31-May-2006 10:47:24] <creiht> http, port 80
[31-May-2006 10:47:28] <ecn> ok
[31-May-2006 10:48:03] <ecn> I think it *is* supposed to be picked up during discovery, but I'll have to ask Erik and he's not around
[31-May-2006 10:48:10] <creiht> hehe
[31-May-2006 10:48:17] <creiht> When's the conference over?
[31-May-2006 10:48:27] <ecn> of course, I could look through the source and find it... eventually
[31-May-2006 10:48:33] <ecn> today
[31-May-2006 10:48:36] <creiht> cool
[31-May-2006 10:48:40] <creiht> Don't worry about it
[31-May-2006 10:48:46] <creiht> I'll play with it some more today
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[31-May-2006 16:23:06] <oubiwann> creiht : you still there?
[31-May-2006 16:24:49] <creiht> oubiwann: Yes
[31-May-2006 16:25:17] <oubiwann> hey, I saw your pic -- did we talk at pycon this year? you look really familiar...
[31-May-2006 16:25:33] <creiht> We did a little bit
[31-May-2006 16:25:35] <oubiwann> and very cute baby, btw ;-)
[31-May-2006 16:25:38] <creiht> hehe
[31-May-2006 16:25:39] <oubiwann> yeah, I thought so
[31-May-2006 16:25:39] <creiht> Thanks
[31-May-2006 16:25:51] <creiht> I think it would have been after the Django presentation
[31-May-2006 16:25:57] <creiht> I happened to sit in front of you
[31-May-2006 16:26:42] <creiht> And Ted Leung was close by as well
[31-May-2006 16:27:22] <creiht> I think we talked about how we wish it would have been less marketing and a little more hands on
[31-May-2006 16:27:31] <oubiwann> heh
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[31-May-2006 16:28:11] <creiht> heh
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[31-May-2006 16:29:25] <creiht> ugh
[31-May-2006 16:29:38] <oubiwann> looks like you're having some fun ;-)
[31-May-2006 16:30:25] <creiht> My IRC client keeps doing weird things
[31-May-2006 16:31:32] <oubiwann> I missed pycon 2005, but 2004 was awesome. It was really technical and lots of intense energy
[31-May-2006 16:31:44] <oubiwann> 2006 was a lot of fun, but was much more laid back and social
[31-May-2006 16:32:00] <oubiwann> which is fun too... I just missed some of that intensity from 2004
[31-May-2006 16:38:54] <creiht> Yeah I was hoping that it would have been a bit more technical
[31-May-2006 16:39:10] <creiht> I did enjoy it though
[31-May-2006 16:39:17] <creiht> And will probably go next year
[31-May-2006 16:39:17] <oubiwann> yeah, me too :-)
[31-May-2006 16:39:21] <oubiwann> ditto
[31-May-2006 16:39:53] <creiht> I really enjoyed the IronPython talks... they were pretty technical
[31-May-2006 16:40:18] <oubiwann> I missed those -- but the PyPy stuff was insanely cool
[31-May-2006 16:40:49] <creiht> heh... Yeah I missed those, but heard they went well
[31-May-2006 16:41:12] <oubiwann> 2004 was very twistful
[31-May-2006 16:41:21] <oubiwann> I hope 2007 has more twisted stuff
[31-May-2006 16:43:29] <creiht> Yeah I heard Glyph was in/near Dallas but was unable to attend due to other obligations
[31-May-2006 16:43:51] <oubiwann> yeah, he was working on a super-secret mission with the gaming industry
[31-May-2006 16:44:00] <creiht> ahhh
[31-May-2006 16:44:07] <creiht> Is it still super-secret?
[31-May-2006 16:44:09] <creiht>
[31-May-2006 16:44:20] <oubiwann> he still hasn't spilled all the beans -- yeah :-)
[31-May-2006 16:44:27] <creiht> ahh
[31-May-2006 16:44:29] <oubiwann> but he did blog about a teaser a while back
[31-May-2006 16:44:41] <oubiwann> a game device with the divmod logo on it :-)
[31-May-2006 16:44:52] <creiht> wow
[31-May-2006 16:44:54] <oubiwann> uh, there was an image with the blog post
[31-May-2006 16:44:55] <creiht> hmmm
[31-May-2006 16:45:01] <oubiwann> yeah, very interesting
[31-May-2006 16:46:35] <oubiwann> oh wow, twisted 2.4 improved bulk ssh xfers by ~5x
[31-May-2006 16:47:35] <creiht> hmmm
[31-May-2006 16:47:44] <creiht> Where is his blog located?
[31-May-2006 16:48:53] <oubiwann> http://glyf.livejournal.com/
[31-May-2006 16:48:53] <adytum-bot> Title: Handwriting on the Sky (at glyf.livejournal.com)
[31-May-2006 16:48:53] <creiht> ahhh yes
[31-May-2006 16:48:53] <creiht> thanks
[31-May-2006 16:48:53] <oubiwann> np ;-)\
[31-May-2006 16:50:16] <oubiwann> heh, I'm reading though the changes in twisted 2.4 (at http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedProject)
[31-May-2006 16:50:16] <adytum-bot> Title: TwistedProject - Twisted - Trac (at twistedmatrix.com)
[31-May-2006 16:50:16] <oubiwann> and the nex feature in twisted.web is the one that I added :-)
[31-May-2006 16:50:18] <oubiwann> that's a good feeling
[31-May-2006 16:50:24] * creiht grins
[31-May-2006 16:53:20] <oubiwann> here's that blog entry:
[31-May-2006 16:53:27] <oubiwann> http://glyf.livejournal.com/53775.html
[31-May-2006 16:53:27] <adytum-bot> Title: glyf: (Unfortunately Brief) Austin Retrospective (at glyf.livejournal.com)
[31-May-2006 16:53:33] <creiht> ahhh cool
[31-May-2006 16:53:34] <creiht> thanks
[31-May-2006 16:54:22] <oubiwann> man, the latest snmp is taking FOREVER to build on my freebsd router
[31-May-2006 16:54:27] <oubiwann> poor old 233 machine...
[31-May-2006 16:55:15] <creiht> heh
[31-May-2006 16:55:44] <oubiwann> as soon as it finishes, I'll be building and running zenoss on my mac (10.3.9)
[31-May-2006 16:55:54] <oubiwann> you ended up getting yours running, correct?
[31-May-2006 16:56:09] <creiht> Almost
[31-May-2006 16:56:25] <creiht> I have a weird dev environment right now
[31-May-2006 16:56:32] <oubiwann> ah
[31-May-2006 16:56:44] <creiht> I think it is a problem with it trying to build rrd
[31-May-2006 16:57:06] <oubiwann> was it the python bindings for rrd?
[31-May-2006 16:57:18] <creiht> It builds rrdtools with the assuming that I am using the Framework version of Python
[31-May-2006 16:57:22] <oubiwann> I've had troubles with that in the past... not even sure if they're actually installed
[31-May-2006 16:57:43] <creiht> But I'm using a DarwinPorts build of Python
[31-May-2006 16:57:51] <creiht> And so it is causing problems
[31-May-2006 16:57:54] <oubiwann> ah, yes
[31-May-2006 16:58:22] <creiht> I was able to install it on my Linux laptop at home fairly easily
[31-May-2006 16:59:40] <creiht> I'm about to blow everything away and upgrade to Tiger, but have been waiting to get done with a current project
[31-May-2006 17:00:05] <oubiwann> I've been meaning to put a darwin ports version of python on my laptop, so I'll add that to my task list
[31-May-2006 17:00:53] <creiht> Man Twisted has progressed since the last time I looked at it
[31-May-2006 17:01:28] <oubiwann> yeah, it's getting lots of enthusiastic work by the core developers and additional contributors
[31-May-2006 17:01:49] <oubiwann> there are universities that use it in their CS programs now, too
[31-May-2006 17:01:57] <creiht> That's cool
[31-May-2006 17:02:31] <creiht> And it looks like the docs have gotten a bit better
[31-May-2006 17:02:51] <oubiwann> yeah, we freaked on irc last year when some guy came on the channel asking questions, and it turned out he was a prof at Stanford or something
[31-May-2006 17:03:01] <creiht> heh
[31-May-2006 17:03:03] <oubiwann> yeah, docs have gotten a LOT of work in the last two years
[31-May-2006 17:03:57] <creiht> Ahh the intro to deffered's doc has been much needed
[31-May-2006 17:04:03] <creiht> I'm going to have to play with it again
[31-May-2006 17:04:05] <oubiwann> totally
[31-May-2006 17:04:22] <oubiwann> that did a great job with a whole new series of docs for deferreds
[31-May-2006 17:04:30] <oubiwann> s/that/they/
[31-May-2006 17:05:50] <creiht> I always had a difficult time with the learning curve... The new docs should help a lot
[31-May-2006 17:06:32] <oubiwann> dude, any questions you've got about twisted, just ask -- I love the stuff, and I tend to be much more friendly than the average twisted dev ;-)
[31-May-2006 17:06:41] <oubiwann> I teach people twisted basics all the time
[31-May-2006 17:06:43] <oubiwann> love it
[31-May-2006 17:06:47] <creiht> Cool... Thanks
[31-May-2006 17:06:50] <oubiwann> you bet :-)
[31-May-2006 17:07:06] <oubiwann> you'd be amazed how quickly you can get up to speed
[31-May-2006 17:07:25] <oubiwann> the docs try to be really comprehensive -- which is good, but also a little overwhelming at first
[31-May-2006 17:08:14] <oubiwann> there are a couple small sample/experimental scripts you can write that really hammer home the nuts and bolts of async coding with twisted
[31-May-2006 17:11:12] <creiht> Wow
[31-May-2006 17:11:32] <creiht> Deferreds make so much more sense now
[31-May-2006 17:11:36] <oubiwann> nice!
[31-May-2006 17:11:56] <oubiwann> that's a great feeling :-)
[31-May-2006 17:17:41] <creiht> ok... so a really off the wall question
[31-May-2006 17:18:10] <creiht> Is there something in the twisted world for messaging (something like JMS in the Java world)?
[31-May-2006 17:19:57] <oubiwann> messaging...
[31-May-2006 17:20:10] <oubiwann> I need more context ;-)
[31-May-2006 17:20:35] <oubiwann> (googling JMS)
[31-May-2006 17:21:11] <oubiwann> yeah
[31-May-2006 17:21:21] <oubiwann> that's twisted.spread (perspective broker)
[31-May-2006 17:21:24] <oubiwann> more or less
[31-May-2006 17:21:29] <creiht> ahhh
[31-May-2006 17:21:54] <oubiwann> pb is teh shit
[31-May-2006 17:22:17] <creiht> Yes... That looks very similar
[31-May-2006 17:22:19] <oubiwann> I've had to do a lot of work with XML-RPC and JSON-RPC, and *man* did that make me appreciate pb
[31-May-2006 17:22:33] <oubiwann> it's very secure
[31-May-2006 17:22:50] <oubiwann> though coding for the security can be a pain (due to the steps you have to take)
[31-May-2006 17:23:10] <oubiwann> but it's really worth it, and not so abstract, once you get used to it
[31-May-2006 17:24:05] <creiht> Interesting
[31-May-2006 17:24:53] <oubiwann> there's also Java code for perspective broker, so it can be used by Java apps
[31-May-2006 17:25:02] <creiht> Hmmm
[31-May-2006 17:25:04] <creiht> That is cool
[31-May-2006 17:25:15] <oubiwann> yeah, that really helps sell it
[31-May-2006 17:25:48] <oubiwann> Erik and I have started talking about using perspective broker in zenoss
[31-May-2006 17:26:07] <oubiwann> for a planned os-agnostic agent
[31-May-2006 17:48:53] *** ecn has joined #zenoss
[31-May-2006 17:50:15] <oubiwann> ecn: hey man :-)
[31-May-2006 19:04:02] *** creiht has quit IRC
[31-May-2006 21:30:24] <ecn> hi
[31-May-2006 21:30:42] <ecn> sorry.. I was out getting ice cream w/the kids
[31-May-2006 22:06:00] <oubiwann> heh
[31-May-2006 22:06:05] <oubiwann> no prob :-)
[31-May-2006 22:14:37] <oubiwann> /whois ecn
[31-May-2006 22:14:40] <oubiwann> heh
[31-May-2006 22:14:55] <oubiwann> I put a space in there by accident
[31-May-2006 22:15:10] <oubiwann> trying to see if your on any interesting channels I might want to check out :-)
[31-May-2006 22:15:23] <oubiwann> nope, just this one :-)
[31-May-2006 22:15:38] <oubiwann> can't go wrong with #zenoss, though
